Twin Commander

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: EricDapp on November 17, 2015, 12:23:17 am

Title: Vintage photos
Post by: EricDapp on November 17, 2015, 12:23:17 am
Anyone have vintage photos of twin commanders from the glory days?  60's, 70's and 80's pics are so fun to look at.

I really like looking up N numbers from old photos to see where they are today. I'm still trying to find out the N number of the turbo commander I flew on when I was a kid. It was when the Teton dam let lose. Spring of 76.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: ghancock on November 17, 2015, 07:03:38 am
I don't have any pictures but sounds like an awesome idea for a thread. :-)

Glenn
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on November 17, 2015, 12:27:10 pm
Commander had some awesome ads back in the day-- google "Shrike Commander ads" and you can come up with some really fun stuff.

Speaking of old tail numbers, I noticed N57077 in one of the 690A ads. I flew that airplane for a bit in the late 1980s, and then we changed the number to N400N for some reason that I no longer recall. Anyway, we rented it to a company whose 690 was getting some major work done, and they flew it into a hill near Kelso WA at night... really unfortunate. One person survived. Pilot was a great guy, seemed really sharp...

Sorry for being a downer... go find some cool pictures!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: EricDapp on November 20, 2015, 12:42:26 am
Dave Loomis pilot of Brand S twin commander.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: EricDapp on November 20, 2015, 12:48:11 am
Found this picture of the only commander I've ever been in. Owned by Brand S corporation in the mid seventies.

Can anyone identify what model it might be? Have you ever seen this plane Don?

The stripes are different in the two pictures. Definitely two different planes.

It looks like a Rockwell emblem on top of the tail.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: EricDapp on November 20, 2015, 12:51:45 am
Hoover and I Reno early 90's
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: EricDapp on November 20, 2015, 12:53:34 am
You all know this plane.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on November 20, 2015, 12:53:51 am
I Need A Shrike - That's either a 680W or a 681. The way you can tell is of course smaller wing/smaller props, but the eyebrow window and landing lights. The 680T and 680V came without eyebrow windows and had landing light in nose. The 680W and 681 had the landing lights under the wing and they popped out.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on November 20, 2015, 01:43:42 am
They are different airplanes, for sure. The second one is, as Adam says, either a 680 or 681. I think the first one is a 690, but I'm not certain. I'm guessing that, in part, because of the black painted windshield frame.

Funny to see that picture of Dave-- he looks a lot younger than when I knew him!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on November 20, 2015, 01:47:52 am
This is my favorite vintage Commander ad!

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: SKYFLYER on November 20, 2015, 07:04:13 am
THE ABOVE SHOULD GET REPRINTED IN TODAY'S MEDIA!!!!!  I LIKE IT
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on November 29, 2015, 06:51:25 pm
Here is a similar one...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on November 29, 2015, 06:57:43 pm
And for the 680W fans out there...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: EricDapp on December 18, 2015, 10:40:47 pm
http://d16bsf97ryvc45.cloudfront.net/Media/2013/01/commander_840.pdf
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: EricDapp on January 14, 2016, 01:29:43 am
Photo on Craigslist. 4 bladed props.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: EricDapp on January 14, 2016, 01:31:13 am
It says spirit of 76 on it.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on January 14, 2016, 01:36:53 am
That appears to be a 680V or 680W as well, since it says "Century Turbo" on the nacelle.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: SKYFLYER on January 14, 2016, 08:18:01 am
Anyone notice the four blade prop????? it was the DALLAS SPIRIT OF 76 and did a 14+ city tour... was in Dallas for the state fair Sept. 25, 1975
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: ghancock on January 15, 2016, 08:49:38 am
Was the first thing I noticed.  Thought it was a turbine there for a second.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on January 15, 2016, 12:21:35 pm
It is a turbine.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: SKYFLYER on January 15, 2016, 01:38:31 pm
Yep a four bladed prop on a turbine Commander from the factory...using the 90″ diameter Hamilton Standard 33LF-325/1033A-0 propeller.. Soooooo why are they not available now???????
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on January 18, 2016, 10:56:25 am
That has to be a 680V because of the lack of eyebrow windows. As I recall, the 680W had them.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: ghancock on January 18, 2016, 11:06:19 am
Maybe one day I'm going to know all these models as well as you guys do. :-)

Glenn
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 05, 2016, 12:32:29 am
Aero Commander Chief Test Pilot and later sales and demo pilot Jerrie Cobb... who also set a bunch of records in Commander 680Es and 680Fs...

(http://binaryapi.ap.org/169eab7fe70348a0897c3167f26ede4e/512x.jpg)
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 07, 2016, 11:12:59 am
I always wonder if, when she was flying in Africa, Jerrie Cobb came across any of the Commanders she had used for flight test or demo, and thought "here's an old friend." After all, piston Commanders are not that unusual in Africa.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on March 05, 2016, 11:33:31 am
Taken yesterday on the hills outside of Mexico City. Looks like a flat nacelle specimen, but no idea what.

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on March 12, 2016, 02:02:18 pm
This is my favorite vintage Commander ad!

Hahaha - that's my favorite as well!!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on March 12, 2016, 03:58:40 pm
This one is right up there with having your girl wash your stag ship  ;)
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on June 24, 2016, 02:50:27 pm
Picking up a new 690 in Oklahoma City... I know two of the guys in this picture.

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on June 25, 2016, 01:07:31 pm
A friend of mine is letting me post some of his Commander photo collection here...

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on June 27, 2016, 01:46:27 pm
This is the third 690 made, returning from a fishing trip (probably to Cow Lake).

This is how they used to sell airplanes, back in the day (they probably still do)-- take the customer on a fishing trip to some out of the way place in Canada (or Mexico, or the Bahamas, depending on where you're based)-- they enjoy themselves, and get to see the utility of the airplane in reaching distant places quickly and easily.

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Huck-Mag on June 27, 2016, 03:21:35 pm
Here is a photo of N742W in France 1967. 
The original owner had an interesting history and was a WW2 fighter pilot.  He purchased the plane in 1966, fitted it with a 90 gallon ferry tank, and headed to Europe. 

My buddy John, who drives a 560 and is a member in TC Group, came across the photo on the web and I purchased it from overseas. 

Brent
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Huck-Mag on June 27, 2016, 03:23:14 pm
To be clear, I purchased the photo overseas...bought the plane in USA.  :)

B
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: SKYFLYER on June 27, 2016, 03:56:23 pm
Do you know which Commander is behind it in the photo?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Huck-Mag on June 27, 2016, 04:22:57 pm
Can't ID the TC behind 742W.  The French source of the photo didn't know the exact location.

B
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on June 27, 2016, 06:23:10 pm
I like the long wire HF antenna and the radome... first owner (the guy who took it to France?) seems to have loaded up on the avionics options.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on June 28, 2016, 01:53:50 am
Painting a... 680?

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on June 28, 2016, 02:15:25 am
So N9203N, which I have pictured above, was the first production 690 (the airplanes before it were prototypes, and two of them crashed in the certification program). It was also the demonstrator-- probably why they have the picture of it with all the fish.

Anyway, here is a nice Flying Magazine review of the 690, using N9203N, written by Archie Trammell:

https://books.google.com/books?id=X8fF4FYP9sIC&pg=PA42&dq=690&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjgkrPahsrNAhVB6mMKHXGvDCk4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=690&f=false
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: ghancock on June 28, 2016, 07:24:39 am
I guess it is proof I am finally getting older.  I love reading those old magazine articles and the way people spoke back then.  They seemed to be truly excited about what they were speaking about.

Glenn
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: SKYFLYER on June 28, 2016, 09:39:37 am
Oh Glenn.... knowing your getting older is when you read something from 50+ years ago and suddenly remember reading it when it was first published....
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: ghancock on June 28, 2016, 04:29:37 pm
lol,  I said "Older" not Old :-)

Glenn
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on June 29, 2016, 11:27:24 am
I feel like that article should be required reading for anyone considering a pre-690 Turbo Commander.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: ghancock on July 01, 2016, 01:38:59 pm
test
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on July 01, 2016, 02:00:08 pm
Boeing Field in the 1950s?

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on July 01, 2016, 05:08:47 pm
These are great - keep 'em coming!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on July 02, 2016, 12:39:43 am
Do you have some in the archives, Bruce?

These are great - keep 'em coming!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on July 02, 2016, 01:48:39 am
Is this a Shrike, or a 680E or F? I'm guessing a 500 model...

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Russell Legg on July 03, 2016, 07:49:53 am
Donv - this is a 500S (Shrike) Model - has the 'flush' fin and rudder surfaces...

The 680E has the fat nacelles...

The 680F has the 'non-flush' fin and rudder surfaces...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Russell Legg on July 03, 2016, 08:00:30 am
And for the 680W fans out there...


Donv - definitely the 680W - the only airframe to be marketed as the 'Turbo II Commander'...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Russell Legg on July 03, 2016, 08:08:22 am
That has to be a 680V because of the lack of eyebrow windows. As I recall, the 680W had them.

Adam - eyebrow windows were introduced with the 681 - no windows in 680V/W (two of the last 680W airframes had these fitted at factory...)
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Russell Legg on July 03, 2016, 08:12:04 am
Taken yesterday on the hills outside of Mexico City. Looks like a flat nacelle specimen, but no idea what.

Flush fin and control surfaces suggest a 500S Shrike...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Russell Legg on July 03, 2016, 08:20:20 am
A friend of mine is letting me post some of his Commander photo collection here...

'Straight' 560 with the exposed cowl exhausts - far right (polished)...

Remainder 560A/560E/680E...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Russell Legg on July 03, 2016, 08:25:13 am
Do you know which Commander is behind it in the photo?

Probably a G-____ registered 680E...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Russell Legg on July 03, 2016, 08:32:59 am
Painting a... 680?

Maybe 'Straight' 680 or 560A/E or 680E...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Russell Legg on July 03, 2016, 08:34:51 am
test

Nice 520...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Russell Legg on July 03, 2016, 08:36:01 am
Boeing Field in the 1950s?

560E/680E...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on July 07, 2016, 12:29:24 pm
I was chatting with Norm the other day, and mentioned this picture. He commented on how proud Swede was of this airplane, because it was the first 690. He also mentioned how it really seemed like a rocket ship, from a performance perspective.

So N9203N, which I have pictured above, was the first production 690 (the airplanes before it were prototypes, and two of them crashed in the certification program). It was also the demonstrator-- probably why they have the picture of it with all the fish.

Anyway, here is a nice Flying Magazine review of the 690, using N9203N, written by Archie Trammell:

https://books.google.com/books?id=X8fF4FYP9sIC&pg=PA42&dq=690&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjgkrPahsrNAhVB6mMKHXGvDCk4ChDoAQgfMAE#v=onepage&q=690&f=false
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on July 07, 2016, 12:30:25 pm
Another one... 520? Or early 680?

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on July 07, 2016, 01:25:23 pm
Another one... 520? Or early 680?

Swept tail, so not a 520. Probably a 560 or a 680.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: SKYFLYER on July 07, 2016, 02:48:20 pm
690A Morphed.. FAA Registry shows this "N" number to have been assigned.
sort of odd as the "N" goes back to 1930.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on July 10, 2016, 10:13:08 pm
One Of My Favorites.  ;-)

The all time best!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on July 11, 2016, 04:50:03 pm
Same airplane, I believe, but a different angle.



690A Morphed.. FAA Registry shows this "N" number to have been assigned.
sort of odd as the "N" goes back to 1930.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Badger on July 11, 2016, 05:32:37 pm
Nice photos.  There's something really sexy about a Commander!  ;-)
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on September 08, 2016, 01:42:58 pm
Steve/Don/Bruce-
Any old Jetprop photos around?

A few I found, one on flightaware of the assembly line, another of an astafan engine on a 690???

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on September 08, 2016, 05:12:03 pm
I like the factory picture! Those look like 690s to me, but it's hard to tell.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Steve binnette on September 08, 2016, 06:52:29 pm
I never heard of that!

Did they fly it?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on September 09, 2016, 09:36:59 am
Steve- Flown quite often apparently for the company that developed the engine, Turbomeca Astafan, did the same to a 680V.
Google: 'F-BXAS' lots of info and some good pics of the 690...

 
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: EricDapp on October 14, 2016, 09:18:17 am
In college in the early 90's I had a photography class and I found this picture I had taken on the ramp of KCVO.  Transient, not based .

Paint scheme looks very similar to ship on the top of website.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Steve binnette on October 14, 2016, 04:05:18 pm
Hey!  That's my parking spot!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on October 14, 2016, 04:50:10 pm
690A or B, probably. That's a pretty common paint scheme on Commanders. Mine is a variation on that one. I wish I could see the tail number!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on January 17, 2017, 02:26:47 am
Some more good ones from my friend...

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on January 17, 2017, 02:27:21 am
One more...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on January 17, 2017, 07:44:55 pm
A lot of Commanders in North Bend...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on January 20, 2017, 02:37:02 am
Do you have some in the archives, Bruce?

These are great - keep 'em coming!

Don - I have a trove of stuff that I need to sort through and will post someday.   Compared to Swede's dirt strip videos, however, I have nothing!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on January 20, 2017, 02:38:50 am
Do you have some in the archives, Bruce?

These are great - keep 'em coming!

Don - I have a trove of stuff that I need to sort through and will post someday.   Compared to Swede's dirt strip videos, however, I have nothing!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on March 08, 2017, 01:22:18 pm
Classic DONV-

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Turbo-Commander-840-980-Aircraft-ad-11-1-16l-/361806481758?hash=item543d58c95e:g:Z6wAAOSwB09YGIDR
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 08, 2017, 02:55:41 pm
I like it!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on March 08, 2017, 04:21:38 pm
Don- from the factory did the 980 have the ice boots all the way back to the fuselage?   In this add the 980 at the bottom shows they stopped at the engine.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 08, 2017, 06:05:36 pm
No, they stop at the engine. My airplane, and I think this was normal, just has a rubber abrasion boot between the engine and the fuselage, but it doesn't inflate.

Commander has a custom kit to add boots there, but I don't really see the point.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 09, 2017, 01:23:36 pm
I've been looking for a scan of that Jetprop ad, but I can't seem to find anything. It would be great to have here.

I'd also like to find the 1980 Flying Magazine flight test of the 980. Google Books has every issue of Flying Magazine from that decade-- except that one!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on March 09, 2017, 03:38:22 pm
Agreed, any old Jetprop stuff puts a smile on my old man's face.
Is this the right magazine?
http://www.carnut.com/cgi-bin/09/image.pl?/store/mags/flmags/fl7912.jpg

Please share if you find anything.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 09, 2017, 05:29:07 pm
Yes, that's the one.

Here is the one-page Jetprop ad...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 09, 2017, 05:37:31 pm
The two-page ad.

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 09, 2017, 06:44:42 pm
One more... for the 1000 this time.

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on August 16, 2017, 01:11:54 pm
Bruce, been in a back office room for decades, must have been something your dad/uncle gave out?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on August 16, 2017, 09:24:54 pm
Bruce, been in a back office room for decades, must have been something your dad/uncle gave out?

Ha - very nice -  thanks for the memory.  We flight planned by those calendars for years  ;D

 Those were a tradition for a looong time. Paper calendars are kind of like sun dials in this day and age!

I just pulled a bunch of stuff out of the archives including Bob Mays gracious donation of his stash of propaganda.  Need to scan this stuff or bring it to the fly in.  I think Adam is going to beat me to becoming airborne however ...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on August 16, 2017, 09:52:07 pm
Definitely scan that stuff!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on August 17, 2017, 01:44:46 am
I might just - they're doing a test flight tomorrow!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on September 21, 2017, 01:55:46 am
I think this is a 685?

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on September 21, 2017, 12:16:36 pm
It's a 685. The 680FLP, which is very similar, has nose lights.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Peter Bichier on September 30, 2017, 07:05:38 am
Can't ID the TC behind 742W.  The French source of the photo didn't know the exact location.

B

straight 560 on the back which is ironic since your friend John flew them! (you can tell by the external augmenters and yet what seems a swept tail).
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on September 30, 2017, 05:25:36 pm
I think this is a 520?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on October 01, 2017, 03:06:37 am
I think this is a 520?

Four sure.  Don't know of any 2-blade 520's, but it might have been an early model where they were still trying things out. A surefire way to tell, is the small window after the cockpit windows; on every subsequent model they were bigger - only the 520 had the shorter body.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on January 29, 2018, 05:03:29 pm
Don- after picking up direct from factory- 1980...
New plane smell and all!


Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on January 29, 2018, 06:34:38 pm
I love it!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on January 30, 2018, 10:47:48 am
I think we may be one of the few Jetprops that kept the original paint scheme since new...
We went to black and silver though...


Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on January 30, 2018, 12:07:17 pm
I think the factory 980 paint scheme was the best of all of them, especially in your colors. Maybe I should go back to that when I repaint mine...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on January 30, 2018, 03:35:41 pm
Old School... Bring it back Don!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on January 30, 2018, 04:18:07 pm
It's funny-- 10 or 20 years ago, that factory scheme would have looked dated, but today, to my eyes anyway, it looks completely up to date.

I'm much less of a fan of the 840 factory paint scheme, though. And certainly not of the various browns (or "Bavarian Creme"), especially in place of the white. But a nice crisp white with blue and gray accent stripes in the factory scheme could look really good.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on February 05, 2018, 04:08:27 am
Here is a picture of Hughes Aircraft's three corporate Turbo Commanders, N568H, N569H and N570H sitting at Hughes Field (Was close to LAX, but is now gone).

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 05, 2018, 12:41:08 pm
That's a neat picture!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 05, 2018, 12:41:59 pm
I wonder how I could find out the original colors of my airplane? They're not noted in the logbooks, and I've not seen any early pictures of it in spite of searching... with my luck, it was probably brown over bavarian creme-- not doing that!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on February 07, 2018, 12:50:37 am
Here is a picture of Hughes Aircraft's three corporate Turbo Commanders, N568H, N569H and N570H sitting at Hughes Field (Was close to LAX, but is now gone).

Cool pic.  Interesting history on that airport I?m sure.

There was at least one other one, 567H, Sn 11330.  I found it to have an annunciator on the panel labeled ?TALAR? which no one could explain.  IIRC, there were documents regarding some microwave landing system that I believe Hughes was involved with.  Can?t remember much else, but I worked pretty hard to save that plane and it?s still in service.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on February 07, 2018, 01:24:21 am
Who's got it now, Bruce?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on February 07, 2018, 08:18:47 am
Who's got it not, Bruce?

It?s in Idaho with the premier forestry operator.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 07, 2018, 11:14:53 am
In regards to the pic, when did the commander line stop incorporating the small flap window on pilot side?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 07, 2018, 12:23:04 pm
In regards to the pic, when did the commander line stop incorporating the small flap window on pilot side?

I think either straight 690, or maybe very early 690A.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 15, 2018, 01:56:42 pm
Classic, been in one of our offices since early 80's.  That was state-of-the art back then.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 15, 2018, 02:26:00 pm
Was that right after you took delivery? Looks like you are set up to do the North Atlantic?

You should post a picture of what the panel looks like now!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 16, 2018, 09:08:20 am
Yep, right after...  You're right-long range radios were mostly for flights out to Bermuda...

I'll get a pic of the panel as it looks today.  Dual 600's.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 16, 2018, 02:19:50 pm
Great shot, just up on Flightaware
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 16, 2018, 04:40:17 pm
That is a nice shot-- thanks!

I voted for it-- I'm trying to get votes for it so it will replace the default picture which comes up now.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: kent4142 on March 18, 2018, 06:34:03 pm
Some time in the 70's we had a Turbo Commander.  I was around 12 or 13 years old.  I never flew it, but I washed it, waxed it, sat in the front and went "woooooooh" a lot.

N22LY.  Bruce traced it to Central America somewhere.

I think that airplane is why I own one now.

The last photo is from the internet somewhere.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on March 19, 2018, 01:20:10 am
Looks like a 680T or 680V, Kent!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 19, 2018, 01:27:51 am
Cool pictures!

The last one, with the 690 and the 685 and the blue bird, is a classic-- and I've never seen it before.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: kent4142 on March 24, 2018, 02:06:33 pm
My cousin, the man with his wife Linda in the picture said that it is a 680V.

K
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on April 01, 2018, 04:59:47 pm
A few Commanders in front of the old Aero Air location, late 1970s (the 690B in the picture is 1978, and Aero Air moved to their new location on the other side of the airport around 1980, I believe)...

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on April 02, 2018, 02:50:53 pm
95047, back when new-ish. The owner of 95047 also owned the P-51 in the background... he still has the P-51, in fact.

Before buying 95047, he owned 95019 (the Indonesian 980 in another thread).

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on April 04, 2018, 01:25:41 pm
95047 (N1981S) on the ramp somewhere in "Arizona or New Mexico or some place."

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on April 05, 2018, 02:35:05 pm
95047 (N1981S) on their hangar ramp, which interestingly is right next door to my present hangar. Unfortunately, that ramp is covered in so much junk that you could never take a picture like that today.

My friend tells me that 95047 was one of the "fire sale" airplanes that Gulfstream couldn't sell, and so sat in a field for a few years before they bought it. He said it had continual problems, as well.

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on April 09, 2018, 01:28:23 pm
95019, when newish... this is the Indonesian 980, back in her glory days. Actually, at this point probably only a two owner airplane, which is sort of interesting... Erickson and then the Indonesian Air Force.

The hangar which she's pictured in front of is next door to my present hangar. Unfortunately, their ramp is covered in junk now.

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on October 25, 2018, 02:54:03 pm
More crazy 'astafan', just intrigues me....
http://lfmpnews.blogspot.com/2015/12/1990-1996-f-bstm-fan-commander-perpignan.html
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: SKYFLYER on October 25, 2018, 09:55:20 pm
Check out the turbines they hung on it. Also the ad stating "No pollution"... Gotta love it.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on October 25, 2018, 10:25:57 pm
Wonder what the fuel burn and performance was...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Steve binnette on October 26, 2018, 11:43:15 am
That’s fantastic, what model and manufacturers are those engines.  It looks like a very early high bypass turbine.  What I find weird is the centrifugal compressor as the last stage of the compressor section?

I love any innovation and this is cool but a -10 gets you up against redline with out all the fuss.

Great find I love the photos just need a translation.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on October 26, 2018, 01:05:26 pm
This was a jet evolution of the turboprop version of the Astazou, I believe-- you can see a picture on that page of the 680 with the Astazou turboprops mounted on it.

Wasn't the Astazou mostly used as a helicopter engine? Although I do believe the turboprops were on some version of the Jetstream?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on October 26, 2018, 08:58:37 pm
That’s fantastic, what model and manufacturers are those engines.  It looks like a very early high bypass turbine.  What I find weird is the centrifugal compressor as the last stage of the compressor section?


Quite a few turboprops have that configuration - RR250/300 and the PT6's as well with a mix of axial flow and centrifugal as last stage. Not as common on jet engines, but some of the earlier ones with 60's provenance had it. I've heard the centrifugal is very efficient for TP's and axial flow doesn't make much sense there. But for jet engines it's the opposite - the axial flows do better there.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Steve binnette on October 26, 2018, 10:55:00 pm
Adam you are correct, it is used on TP but is unusual on jets.

Don you nailed it.  I looked up that engine.  It is unique for a couple of reason.  What I found most interesting is it had variable pitch fan blades.

It was like a ducted TP, interesting stuff!  It was the engine used on the Aerostar jet.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbomeca_Astafan
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on October 31, 2018, 01:21:31 pm
Funny old one... Wonder if we can get this to the current owner (N2141B)- looks like they upgraded to -10's now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mzSpthvqjE
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on October 31, 2018, 02:08:25 pm
Wow, that video is a find! I want to watch the whole thing.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on November 03, 2018, 10:05:23 pm
Funny old one... Wonder if we can get this to the current owner (N2141B)- looks like they upgraded to -10's now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mzSpthvqjE

Yeah awesome video and thanks for posting. That is amazing and there are two legs to come! I emailed a link to the owner and his pilot. I believe the plane is 2241B out of Little Rock. Ironically I was scheduled to Litte Rock this morning with the 500B.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on November 04, 2018, 01:27:33 pm
I wonder if that was a delivery flight? I notice that airplane was subsequently under British registration before coming back to the US eventually.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on November 20, 2018, 12:45:08 pm
Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uta8t-eV4M8
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on January 04, 2019, 05:39:48 pm
Part 3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTeiBo7pMF8
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on January 29, 2019, 07:05:51 pm
Overseas ad.  Love the old stuff.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 05, 2019, 09:33:47 pm
Sorry Don- im a terrible photographer... but 1980 to 2019...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 20, 2019, 05:52:40 pm
My favorite part of the ad is the size of the cabin "Business Size Interior"- LOOKS MASSIVE


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Aero-Turbo-Commander-Business-Airplane-Prestige-Brochure-ea0291/292932285561?hash=item44341ff479:g:n90AAOSwwZxcHV96:sc:USPSFirstClass!19380!US!-1:rk:1:pf:0


And was this a sales pitch?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Commander-Park-Lighter/113654615380?hash=item1a7657cd54:g:7lAAAOSwuJlcbFD0:rk:3:pf:0
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on February 20, 2019, 09:47:29 pm
My favorite part of the ad is the size of the cabin "Business Size Interior"- LOOKS MASSIVE


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Aero-Turbo-Commander-Business-Airplane-Prestige-Brochure-ea0291/292932285561?hash=item44341ff479:g:n90AAOSwwZxcHV96:sc:USPSFirstClass!19380!US!-1:rk:1:pf:0


And was this a sales pitch?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Turbo-Commander-Park-Lighter/113654615380?hash=item1a7657cd54:g:7lAAAOSwuJlcbFD0:rk:3:pf:0

Does not require a two MAN pilot crew lol
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 22, 2019, 08:51:01 am
Bruce- please tell me you know what this was?!?!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-AX-YOUR-TAX-BOARD-GAME-1979-COMPLETE/173757958523?hash=item2874c8097b:g:dfgAAOSwl1xcSTwl:rk:16:pf:0
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 22, 2019, 10:57:18 am
I love that! JMA, you need to buy that!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 22, 2019, 10:58:37 am
If you haven't looked at it lately, Swede's Facebook page has a wonderful scanned article from about 1979 about Aero Air and Commander... well worth a look.

https://www.facebook.com/swederalston/
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on February 22, 2019, 12:10:32 pm
Is Swede still alive?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 22, 2019, 12:14:48 pm
Sadly, no. Died in bed at 92 (I think?) about 10 years ago. His grandchildren maintain that facebook page.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on March 10, 2019, 07:49:47 pm
Any 980's keep the original "COMMANDER JETPROP" on the engine?
I haven't seen one in a long time.  I know we did away with ours on the 2nd or 3rd paint job.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 10, 2019, 08:26:38 pm
I don't know about 980s, but I have definitely seen it on Jetprops. In fact, when I do my repaint, I'd like to put it back on.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on March 10, 2019, 11:11:01 pm
Any 980's keep the original "COMMANDER JETPROP" on the engine?
I haven't seen one in a long time.  I know we did away with ours on the 2nd or 3rd paint job.

We just put that on Corey’s plane. I don’t have a photo handy.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 11, 2019, 12:13:11 am
Bruce, is that a sticker or is there a template for that lettering? I also want to do the correct "980" on the wingtips, or at least something similar.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on March 11, 2019, 06:10:29 pm
Bruce, is that a sticker or is there a template for that lettering? I also want to do the correct "980" on the wingtips, or at least something similar.

It’s a sticker that we re-created.  They looked nice to me - still looking for the pic. If you would like to acquire some, I’d call Cameron in parts: 309-697-6300
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on March 15, 2019, 06:28:50 pm
Nice vintage sales photo... Sorry for link, wouldn't allow me to copy pic.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4589955817/in/photolist-H4AxxV-pLhzWz-e3yK3y-gSirED-hGU8HC-p418YY-ZJ89Rm-iuGFYr-sg36AX-23Ym7Ek-p5m9Gw-oa6Gcy-bNokNM-64iHfu-9gfRHY-dCvaGy-hCsyi4-7ZDUhG-8Q4n5N-dmpA6J-arhkqn-6SACGp-E79PRx-9q9SDq-eVWcsb-TqE5Zo-oCxzNT-kjsyCX-rHvUyr-cpPDTy-mVCWAN-eVJACa-7LaMmL-oGvp88-ekApjZ-7SxaTx-kLTxhz-eVJuq8-dFvoY3-dmpxrt-pR4P3s-9vyRv2-dNutJ5-dsTsQM-mwyBmT-842cjV-7ZAHXg-gC6Lg4-o1dtSa-aPzRRa
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 15, 2019, 06:44:12 pm
Bruce, is that a sticker or is there a template for that lettering? I also want to do the correct "980" on the wingtips, or at least something similar.

It’s a sticker that we re-created.  They looked nice to me - still looking for the pic. If you would like to acquire some, I’d call Cameron in parts: 309-697-6300

When I get around to painting my 980 (maybe later this year), I will follow up with you. I'd like to have the stickers-- I think they look good as well.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on March 16, 2019, 01:40:51 pm
Again- apologies for the link (it should take you directly to the Commander vintage photos, if not they are a little past halfway down the page.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/with/4589955817/

DonV- some pics of the original 980 decal on wingtip available.

Regarding this specific pic, never seen a 'side facing' seat in the back like that!?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4590575920/
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on March 16, 2019, 01:50:00 pm
And a vintage 2014 980 story:
http://vuelamex.com/blog_80224_Detienen-a-2-pilotos-mexicanos-en-el-Aeropuerto-Goloson--Honduras.html
Can translate using chrome.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 16, 2019, 05:54:53 pm
And a vintage 2014 980 story:
http://vuelamex.com/blog_80224_Detienen-a-2-pilotos-mexicanos-en-el-Aeropuerto-Goloson--Honduras.html
Can translate using chrome.

95052? Looks like the story was from 2014... I hope the airplane made it's way back to service and isn't just moldering down there somewhere...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 16, 2019, 09:15:14 pm
Again- apologies for the link (it should take you directly to the Commander vintage photos, if not they are a little past halfway down the page.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/with/4589955817/

DonV- some pics of the original 980 decal on wingtip available.

Regarding this specific pic, never seen a 'side facing' seat in the back like that!?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/sdasmarchives/4590575920/

Those are great pictures! Too bad they are not higher resolution scans-- I'm sure the original ones were 8x10s.

Regarding the seat, as I recall, in the 1000 the seats had the ability to track out and rotate like that. I think that was true for all of the passenger seats in the back?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: schrambow on March 25, 2019, 10:08:09 pm
Bruce, is that a sticker or is there a template for that lettering? I also want to do the correct "980" on the wingtips, or at least something similar.

It’s a sticker that we re-created.  They looked nice to me - still looking for the pic. If you would like to acquire some, I’d call Cameron in parts: 309-697-6300

When I get around to painting my 980 (maybe later this year), I will follow up with you. I'd like to have the stickers-- I think they look good as well.

Sorry, i am a little late to this question, going through my photos and resize this one to show our logo that Byerly created for us.  A great job!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on March 25, 2019, 10:16:41 pm
That looks great! Airplane looks great as well. Is that the factory 980 paint scheme?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on March 26, 2019, 09:23:45 am
Don't think the paint curled at the tail Donv- ours is original and is almost a straight line.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on April 18, 2019, 04:19:42 pm
Another classic marketing ploy... never saw one though, sure Bruce has.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Commander-Jetprop-Acrylic-Paper-Weight/273805551383?hash=item3fc0152717:g:Q-MAAOSwPXJcjUAS
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on April 19, 2019, 12:27:22 am
I'm tempted to bid on that! The only thing is, the way it sits, it looks like it's about to crash!

Actually, the last thing I need are more desktop chotchkies...
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on April 19, 2019, 10:35:16 am
Go for it DonV, never enough chotchkies!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Roy on April 21, 2019, 12:32:07 pm
Auction ended; Don either owns it or missed it  ;)
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on April 21, 2019, 03:14:15 pm
Missed it!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on May 07, 2019, 06:31:32 pm
Odd question- but I have always have been curious.
Can someone explain why a westwind looks very familiar to the body style of the commander?  Yet they did have the jet commander, was either related to the rockwell/gulfstream programs?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on May 08, 2019, 12:09:51 am
Odd question- but I have always have been curious.
Can someone explain why a westwind looks very familiar to the body style of the commander?  Yet they did have the jet commander, was either related to the rockwell/gulfstream programs?

Aero Design and Engineering designed and built the Jet Commander as well as the various piston and Turbo Commander models. Then, they sold the company to Rockwell.

Rockwell was already building the Sabreliner, and antitrust issues required them to sell one of the business jet lines-- either Jet Commander or Sabreliner. They had big military contracts for the Sabreliner and so elected to sell the Jet Commander program to Israeli Aircraft

Interestingly enough, the last Sabreliner was built sometime in the early 1980s, while the last G150 (the final derivative of the Westwind/Jet Commander line) was built in 2017... did Rockwell make the right choice?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on May 08, 2019, 09:56:36 am
I'm one of the few who think the Westwind looks gorgeous. I love the midwing design and that pretty nose and how low it sits. Looks like the jet equivalent to a a fat muscle car from the 70's. But the market doesn't. Can't give them away these days. If they'd just been SP, I'd be all over one of those. Great range, too.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on May 08, 2019, 10:57:49 am
I have a lot of time in Westwinds and Jet Commanders. I think the Jet Commander looks better than the Westwind-- just so much cleaner-- but the Westwinds are far better airplanes.

The Westwind, and Jet Commander, look fantastic in the air, less great on the ground.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Jeff Johnson on May 09, 2019, 12:00:28 am
Looks like an Aerostar wing.

You can tell the lineage.

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on May 09, 2019, 12:35:04 pm
Always providing great knowledge, thanks as always DonV.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on May 09, 2019, 12:41:23 pm
Looks like an Aerostar wing.

You can tell the lineage.

You sure can! In fact, I think the Jet Commander was Ted Smith's last design before starting Aerostar, so no wonder.

I don't know if you've seen the Aerostar Jet, which was based off Ted's jet design. It has under-wing jet engines, but I think it would have looked so much better if he had put tail mounted engines on it-- then it would have looked just like a mini-Jet Commander. That's probably why he didn't do it, though.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on May 09, 2019, 07:32:40 pm
Ted was a genius. His commonality between elevator and rudders on the Aerostar was a master stroke. One part fits all.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on May 15, 2019, 07:44:15 pm
What a site that would have been, probably only time in history to occur:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/paul-thallon/8667420155/in/photolist-ecUN3x-efvoio-efvoYW-efpDmF-ectuET-ecsnai-eca1T6-fxEoNN-e9ZK1Z-e9nxYM-e91p5L-eaEhET-eaCW74-eaKLpY-e6ycJb-e6buM6-e6jpg7-e5pGYX-e4gcof-e7csiG-e76NR2-e7MzjK-e3SAP9-dfEZqb-dcpPi3-d91zTm-d91KYs-d91JRS-da92bR-dGd7mb-cLDDpN-BTJqHB-cMzVHf-cMzV13-cpPDTy-cpPEVo-cpPpim-dmpzWm-dmpwXV-dmpxbH-dmpzQW-dmpA6J-dmpxpr-dmpAcu-dmpxrt-cpKM4J-cDxKp5-drNY4o-dCXpfS-dse652

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on June 04, 2019, 05:55:42 pm
May be a silly question, but was there a reason behind the naming conventions for the turbo commander?
690/840/980/1000?
Also, why dual numbers (i.e. a 980 is also a AC695)?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on June 04, 2019, 06:05:21 pm
May be a silly question, but was there a reason behind the naming conventions for the turbo commander?
690/840/980/1000?
Also, why dual numbers (i.e. a 980 is also a AC695)?

In a word... marketing.

For certification purposes, the 840 wasn't different enough from the 690B to require a new model designation, so it became the 690C. However, the sales people felt that they needed to differentiate it from the 690B, so they came up with the name "840" and designated it that way. They also referred to it as a "jetprop" which was new.

On the other hand, the 980, with different engines, was sufficiently different from the 690B that the FAA did require a new model designation for it... hence "695." However, 695 is lower than 840, and we can't have the premium model number be lower than the low-end model, so it was called "980" for marketing purposes.

When the 1000 came along, it was able to be on the 695 type certificate, and thus became the 695A, and eventually 695B. However, again, "1000" was a higher number than 980, so that's what the marketing people wanted.

When the 900 came along, weirdly enough the FAA was willing to let it be on the 690 type certificate, so 690D. But, again, they needed a number that slotted in between 840 and 1000, so 900.

Does that make sense?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on June 06, 2019, 08:08:36 am
Very much so... Thanks!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on June 06, 2019, 08:07:29 pm
Always interested in 80's history.  Had no idea lear put out a single turbo prop.  I found it an interesting watch, even shows the STARSHIP! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n037eiIhYOI
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on June 11, 2019, 09:08:06 pm
Sorry another possible silly question for the group.
Why did some of the jetprop engines have full metal near the front (by prop) vs. painted top half the metal circle??
Sorry if that is not a very well written question. 
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on July 02, 2019, 12:52:37 pm
Sorry another possible silly question for the group.
Why did some of the jetprop engines have full metal near the front (by prop) vs. painted top half the metal circle??
Sorry if that is not a very well written question.

I think that was done as another way to visually differentiate the 980 from the 840 and 690 series. However, I think some people have put polished upper nacelles on the earlier airplanes, so it's not a perfectly reliable way to tell.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on July 03, 2019, 07:17:26 pm
Also, some of the earlier models had glassfibre spinners that wouldn't match a polished look, so that probably played a role as they matched better to a painted upper smile.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on July 05, 2019, 02:39:01 pm
Thank you both, always a wealth of knowledge. 
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on September 18, 2019, 06:12:30 pm
Well not a 980 DonV, but this is the factory model Rockwell used to give new ownders... I always keep my hopes that one day one will show up.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rockwell-International-Commander-Jetprop-840-Model-Airplane/323905686936?hash=item4b6a488d98:g:RlQAAOSwSbpdcUe6
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on September 18, 2019, 06:28:02 pm
If you want one, I would buy that one. $230 actually seems fairly reasonable.

Second, I've flown the 840 that's a model of! 11624. The guy who owned it in the late 1980s was a partner in the Scott ski goggle business, and a big windsurfer.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on September 19, 2019, 01:35:10 pm
If that's an original model, you could get it repainted to look just like your airplane. Those original models are really nice-- in my opinion nicer (more accurate proportions) than any new ones on the market today.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on September 23, 2019, 06:03:55 pm
That's a good point DonV, and of course the listing is down... SOLD :(
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on January 16, 2020, 11:19:16 am
Ebay Listing:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-Press-Photo-Rockwell-Jetprop-Commander-980-business-plane-pim08683/233464739776?hash=item365b9537c0:g:aroAAOSwYA5eHQUp


Oddly, they mention in the description of the photo that the top is a 980 and bottom 840, but I think they are both 980's (right?).
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on January 16, 2020, 10:38:37 pm
Based on the paint schemes, which is really the only way to know at that distance, the 980 is in the foreground and the 840 is in the background. The 840 paint scheme makes a horizontal line across the tail. There are some examples of both of them earlier in this thread.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on January 17, 2020, 09:18:42 am
Thats right, remember the paint scheme discussions.  Thanks as always!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on January 23, 2020, 09:29:16 am
Some neat stuff on ebay right now...


https://www.ebay.com/itm/1984-Gulfstream-III-Jetprop-1000-Aircraft-report-10-25-17bb/263280128214?hash=item3d4cb7f0d6:g:CpQAAOSwytJZ8H0Y


Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on January 23, 2020, 11:34:55 am
I like that!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on January 29, 2020, 07:14:53 pm
Love the old original ads...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/9-1979-PUB-ROCKWELL-INTERNATIONAL-JETPROP-COMMANDER-840-980-ORIGINAL-AD/293420413396?hash=item44513831d4:g:l9sAAOSwmbReGwG6
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 04, 2020, 04:50:14 pm
There have been some amazing photos showing up on the Twin Commander Flyers Facebook group.

We need to get Barry Lane to join us over here.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on February 06, 2020, 12:23:31 pm
I wish "the old guard" would be more on this forum. Many never migrated. I personally have been off Facebook for 5 years and have no intention to rejoin, even though I really would like to access that Commander stuff. Please encourage them to come over here if you're there, Don. I will try to improve the approval process.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 06, 2020, 12:37:13 pm
I wish "the old guard" would be more on this forum. Many never migrated. I personally have been off Facebook for 5 years and have no intention to rejoin, even though I really would like to access that Commander stuff. Please encourage them to come over here if you're there, Don. I will try to improve the approval process.

You get the Beechtalk people over here, and I'll work on the Facebook group. Deal?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on February 06, 2020, 12:54:54 pm
Deal!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Barry Collman on July 13, 2020, 08:41:04 am
Brand S Cop owned the 681B s/n 6049 from Sept '72 to Sep '78, as N9111N, so I'm pretty sure that's the one in the photograph. They then acquired the 690A s/n 11210 N57210 in Aug '78 and sold it in Mar '80.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Barry Collman on July 13, 2020, 08:59:18 am
It says spirit of 76 on it.

It's the 680W, s/n 1834-39, N200CT. The Hartzell 4-blade props were tested in Sep '75, the replaced by the standard  Hamilton Standard 33LF-325 again in Nov '75.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on July 13, 2020, 10:43:46 am
Barry! Glad you are here! Lots of interesting stuff to discuss.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: EricDapp on July 14, 2020, 02:06:35 am
Does Barry or Don know whatever happened to Dave Loomis? Not sure about the spelling. Is there a way to search through the FAA database?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on July 14, 2020, 12:35:05 pm
Dave was with Horizon for a long time. I'm pretty sure he retired from there, probably early 2000s. I have a friend who I think would know.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on July 15, 2020, 04:41:08 pm
Nice to see you here, Barry!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: SKYFLYER on July 15, 2020, 05:22:09 pm
Facts and data to the forefront any time Mr. Barry C is in the house.  Great your here.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on October 31, 2020, 11:09:26 pm
I just heard from a mutual friend that Dave Loomis passed away last week. I will post an obituary when I find it.

Dave Loomis pilot of Brand S twin commander.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: EricDapp on November 01, 2020, 09:17:06 pm
Thanks Don.

I’ve only flown in a commander twice in my life. Once with Dave as a kid and the other time was with you.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on November 10, 2020, 12:24:25 pm
Classic right here, sale price 1.4 mill!
Im bidding to buy it, my old man will get a kick out of this.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Vintage-Gulfstream-American-Commander-Jetprop-Series-Brochures-ADS-1980s/224221764928?hash=item3434a89d40:g:0kMAAOSwQX9fkHDp
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on November 10, 2020, 12:46:36 pm
You should definitely get it. I have scans of the blue 980 factory price list-- in fact, I've posted them here somewhere.

I just bought the December 1979 issue of Flying on eBay, which has the 980 on the cover. I'm waiting for it to show up.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on November 11, 2020, 12:35:45 pm
Awesome DonV please post when it does deliver.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on November 19, 2020, 12:08:58 pm
Here it is. Sorry for the poor quality of the scan.

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on November 21, 2020, 08:06:15 am
Fantastic.... Just got the 980 Brochure in, will upload here.   Its in shockingly great shape.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on January 18, 2021, 03:15:38 pm
A pic you don't see this often.  I would have thought gears up= bent props.

https://noticieros.televisa.com/ultimas-noticias/falla-avioneta-esposa-gobernador-zacatecas/
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: SKYFLYER on January 18, 2021, 05:29:02 pm
What a beautiful paint job.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on January 18, 2021, 10:47:32 pm
I created a new thread about this accident, because I'm kind of curious what happened.

A pic you don't see this often.  I would have thought gears up= bent props.

https://noticieros.televisa.com/ultimas-noticias/falla-avioneta-esposa-gobernador-zacatecas/
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Barry Collman on January 27, 2021, 09:03:25 am
Some time in the 70's we had a Turbo Commander.  I was around 12 or 13 years old.  I never flew it, but I washed it, waxed it, sat in the front and went "woooooooh" a lot.

N22LY.  Bruce traced it to Central America somewhere.

I think that airplane is why I own one now.

The last photo is from the internet somewhere.

The shot of N22LY, the 680T s/n 1563-19, converted to a 680V in November 1967, shows a fairly rare Little Rock Airmotive/Federal Express nose radome has been installed, under STC SA798SW. It was then converted to a Century Turbo, by June 1974.
As N400G, it was seemingly seized in Colombia by October 1980.
(The image is back on page 8 of this thread).

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: PapaPhil on March 16, 2021, 10:20:57 pm
I noticed a comment about Dave Loomis who passed away this last October.  Here's a picture of David in the early 80's taking care of business at Aero Air, evidently right around Halloween.  I think I still have that little pumpkin full of little trick or treats.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on June 23, 2022, 01:13:10 pm
Perhaps not a vintage photo discussion, but curious anyway.  Anyone know what became of the Bethany OK factory? 
I believe from the old ads I have and see on ebay- it was located at 5001 Rockwell Av, Bethany OK?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on June 23, 2022, 01:17:31 pm
Pic here.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on June 24, 2022, 12:36:04 am
It’s still standing but abandoned as is the Flightsaftey training facility with the signs still on the walls. Like a ghost town.  I have pics of the FSI facility but I’m sure you can see it on google earth.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Sergio Vega on June 24, 2022, 10:17:31 pm
Don't know if it's the same place you are talking about Bruce, but one of the hangars is occupied by Valair Aviation. I stopped there on my flight back home from Chattanooga when I  bought the 685. Here are some pictures.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on July 05, 2022, 03:10:22 pm
Thanks guys.  Is it just me or does that seem like a really small building for a commander assembly line?
Attached is the original photo I posted a long time ago on this thread of the assembly line from 'flightware'
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on July 05, 2022, 11:02:54 pm
That’s the Flightsafety building. The production line was here:

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on July 06, 2022, 09:59:22 am
Awesome stuff, thanks Bruce, this old stuff absolutely fascinates me.

I used your google map idea, looks like there is a commander on the tarmac- missing an engine (see pic attached).  Is there still some type of service center our there?

Also, how did it work at production time- completed plane comes out front (or back)?  and crosses the road?

Is there anyone who possibly has an old pic of the 'leftover' commanders in the 80's that were sitting in the grass?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on November 28, 2022, 12:34:35 am
I'm reading a biography of Jerrie Cobb and Jackie Cochran, and now I understand this picture. I always wondered why the panel looked so empty-- well, that airplane is a 680E she used to set both speed and altitude records, and it was as stripped down as it could be. I think maybe she had a handheld radio, and that was it.

Aero Commander Chief Test Pilot and later sales and demo pilot Jerrie Cobb... who also set a bunch of records in Commander 680Es and 680Fs...

(http://binaryapi.ap.org/169eab7fe70348a0897c3167f26ede4e/512x.jpg)
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: kent4142 on December 10, 2022, 07:24:46 pm
Okay Commander Spotters - I found this tonight sifting through old slides from my Dad.  This photo was taken 2 years before I was born.  That is my Uncle and Grandfather.  What I don't know is - what model Commander this is.

Kent

Also, thank you Barry Collman for the info on N22LY.  That was very kind.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on December 11, 2022, 11:51:19 am
If we knew what year you were born, that would help!

I'm not good enough to tell the difference between a 520, a 560, and a straight 680, but I'm guessing one of those.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: appleseed on December 11, 2022, 01:10:51 pm
Good Challenge.
I feel like the intake scoop on bottom of nacelles, and the blister for ejector pipes are clues.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on December 11, 2022, 03:25:29 pm
680 Super?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: appleseed on December 12, 2022, 12:18:41 am
It's a great picture. You can't quite tell if the tail is swept. Which would be a dead give away. It has three blade props, makes you think 560 or later.

I went through "Stars & Commanders" tonight. Couldn't find any 520s with 3 blade props. But, even so, the cowl inlets, the undercowl inlet scoop... it's a 520.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on December 12, 2022, 12:30:39 am
Google finds a bunch of 520s with 3-blade props. And looking at it, I think the tail is straight, so I'm going 520.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: kent4142 on December 12, 2022, 11:51:24 pm
Sorry about that.  I was born in 1958.  The picture was taken in May of 1956.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on December 13, 2022, 12:11:07 am
Looks like a 520. That little tiny scoop behind/above pilots side window I had on mine. And the oil coolers looks that way exactly, too. But the straight 560 can be deceptively similar in front when you don't see the tail.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on April 15, 2023, 04:13:25 pm
I had dinner with the gentleman on the left a few days ago. Still going strong, and told me about picking up the first production 980 at the factory and flying it home.

Picking up a new 690 in Oklahoma City... I know two of the guys in this picture.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on July 29, 2023, 07:53:20 pm
Is that Norm? 

On a different subject, I found these films, hoping Adam or someone knows how to digitize them as I’d love to watch each one. A bunch of cassette tapes as well, maybe they go together?

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on July 30, 2023, 11:47:31 am
Bert Zimmerly, Swede, and the gentleman on the right is maybe the national sales manager for Aero Commander?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: SKYFLYER on July 30, 2023, 06:07:26 pm
Vintage application for a current problem
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on July 30, 2023, 08:13:08 pm
Bert Zimmerly, Swede, and the gentleman on the right is maybe the national sales manager for Aero Commander?

So Bert is alive and well? I didn’t know him, just the name.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on July 30, 2023, 08:31:58 pm
Yes, Bert is doing fine. He's in his 90s now, I think. He flew actively until his early 80s.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on August 03, 2023, 12:51:32 pm
Is that Norm? 

On a different subject, I found these films, hoping Adam or someone knows how to digitize them as I’d love to watch each one. A bunch of cassette tapes as well, maybe they go together?

What kind of film is in there? Stills negatives or microfilm archive?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on August 07, 2023, 09:57:00 am
DonV- if you dont mind me asking, who was the original owner you mentioned having dinner with of the first 980?  Search shows it would have been N980AA deregistered about 10 years ago? 
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on August 07, 2023, 12:08:34 pm
The gentleman I was referring to was Bert Zimmerly, who was the pilot/salesman. I believe the owner was Andy Anderson, a construction guy who owned a bunch of Commanders... and also owned the first 1000. He was a very good customer of Aero Air!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on August 07, 2023, 04:50:41 pm
Is that Norm? 

On a different subject, I found these films, hoping Adam or someone knows how to digitize them as I’d love to watch each one. A bunch of cassette tapes as well, maybe they go together?

What kind of film is in there? Stills negatives or microfilm archive?

It’s some kind of reel. Seems like it was setup to do sales training in a consumer projector but this kind of stuff is way out of my wheelhouse.  I could send it all to you if you want to check it out and I’ll help pay to transfer it to another medium if it’s worth watching?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on August 09, 2023, 02:12:03 pm
Thanks DonV, that makes sense for N980AA then :). 
Guess there were quite a few more west coast operators than east coast? 
Wallmart/Andy Anderson Construction/840JW, etc to think of a few.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on August 09, 2023, 02:33:51 pm
WalMart is in Arkansas, so not really west coast.

I've been trying to convince Dave Amis, who posts a lot of fantastic pictures on FaceBook, to post some here. If all else fails, he told me I could repost some of them.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on August 10, 2023, 12:27:09 am
A bunch of Commanders at HIO at the airshow, mid-1970s...

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on August 10, 2023, 12:34:13 am
500B, I believe...

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on August 10, 2023, 02:12:22 pm
I think some of the pictures I posted in the past got lost due to a crash or something, so I'm going to repost a few here.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on August 17, 2023, 11:15:19 pm


It’s some kind of reel. Seems like it was setup to do sales training in a consumer projector but this kind of stuff is way out of my wheelhouse.  I could send it all to you if you want to check it out and I’ll help pay to transfer it to another medium if it’s worth watching?

Sure! Send it to me and I can have a look. I'll email you.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on August 19, 2023, 11:35:46 am
A few 980 flight test phots courtesy of our newest member, @Daveamis3:

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Adam Frisch on August 20, 2023, 12:32:21 am
Wow, looks like nasty weather and a feathered prop! ???
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on August 20, 2023, 11:37:22 am
I think it was icing certification.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on August 21, 2023, 10:34:54 am
Awesome stuff DonV thanks for posting.
Yeah how do you even get that photo?  Air to air photography during icing conditions?  Great stuff.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on September 15, 2023, 12:57:26 pm
Found this neat, the "regimental" color scheme is so disco 70's.  Amazing!


https://www.ebay.com/itm/204133135766?hash=item2f87487596:g:BacAAOSw1gBjWaK6&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA8Fv8yN0%2FvQZvvxzO3kWs1nAUL84ymFUOkdyCsKwPHnkhyQfl%2BAJUOkqXrhQSPPq%2FIZ2NgXsT7pD13EXg1b0S1frHNBI38rAWQgMLiin8aHZ0VoWHe%2F3gORCFzK81xTE%2BhVxpf5y5Uofgwg7z5LT5%2BBqeJRHWm6Qwn6Wea2khyHzGkR44dgbsJd3o6W4F%2B%2FJJkbNONvhCn7IjJCrKojhkJENBRbU4f5eGDnOJ%2FrbkD80eCL6x%2FA9ex1Y%2FilN4l3VsvlNpNW3yGzRy7DVJV78P%2BBsUvif9ci2d7mMBUlDtvW6eaWDdss0hgXuvXvokVYSyfA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR7zKlZzTYg
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on September 15, 2023, 01:32:48 pm
Wow, that is a cool find! If one of those came up for the JetProps, I think I would buy it, or at least make an offer.

I find it interesting how leather has almost completely replaced cloth in aircraft interiors (and cars, for that matter). My airplane has cloth seats trimmed with leather, and it's very nice, but you rarely see that any more.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on September 17, 2023, 04:37:02 pm
Wow, that is a cool find! If one of those came up for the JetProps, I think I would buy it, or at least make an offer.

I find it interesting how leather has almost completely replaced cloth in aircraft interiors (and cars, for that matter). My airplane has cloth seats trimmed with leather, and it's very nice, but you rarely see that any more.

And let’s face it, those cloth seats are more comfortable than most of the re-do’s!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on September 17, 2023, 05:22:32 pm
Mine are not like the originals, but still cloth...

Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: schrambow on October 17, 2023, 11:58:54 am
vintage 1967 680flp and vintage 1981 980, just such a nice day out to fly.  I find myself at times just starring at these birds for awhile just sitting on a chair next to them.  Is that normal?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on October 17, 2023, 12:45:37 pm
That is awesome! How much do you fly the 680FLP?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: schrambow on October 17, 2023, 01:42:08 pm
well, not nearly enough, probably 5 to 10 hours a year. trying for more.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on October 17, 2023, 01:47:16 pm
It's hard when you have that beautiful 980 sitting there!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: appleseed on October 17, 2023, 01:52:44 pm
Completely normal. Keep doing it. I sure everyone will agree with me.

Also, send a pic or two of FLP in operation.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 05, 2024, 12:12:45 pm
Random Question- why on some commanders at the engine were some not metal all the way around?  I highlighted photo attached for the specific location I am speaking about.  Most are all metal circled the entire way around.

PS  Sad to see a 1000 in museum and not in use.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 05, 2024, 01:03:06 pm
They are all metal, just some of them are painted and some of them are polished. I believe, with fairly low confidence, that when they were new, the -10s were polished and the -5s were painted. So my hunch, could be wrong, is that is a 900 and not a 1000.

These days, many of them are polished because people prefer that look.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 05, 2024, 01:13:12 pm
It looks like the Mexicans have at least 2 1000s (or a 1000 and a 900) up on sticks... kind of sad. I can understand putting a 680 or even an early 690 up on a stick, but a 1000?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 05, 2024, 01:52:49 pm
Thanks as always Don-
I had meant to say 'painted half way', not 'metal half way'.  I guess my question is what was the point (or benefit) to paint?  I always wondered the same for the props.  Every time we get them painted (prop stripes) they don't last very long.
Also, you come to my next question; why a 900 and 1000???  Obviously its an assumption the option was there, but I would 'think' it would have been worth it (?) to pick those up at government auction (cheap) bring it back to Byerly and get them up to 1.5 Mill?
The 1000:
https://www.jetphotos.com/photo/10902034
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 05, 2024, 02:02:50 pm
That is a question for Bruce Byerly. I would think even a clapped out 1000 or 900 would be worth at least $500k or more.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 05, 2024, 02:04:27 pm
Yep, general question to the audience if there are any guesses.
Sad fate, but I guess museum isn't the worst outcome, but assumed some usable life still remained.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on February 05, 2024, 06:43:41 pm
No 1000 or 900 for that matter belongs on a stick but, you know, you can’t save them all from corrupt and inefficient governments. The frustrating part is all the planes from Iran to Venezuela and Columbia that are sitting around in decay without any mechanism for retrieval.  One in Mexico came up lately.  Those agencies down there just squander assets. It’s a shame.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 06, 2024, 01:32:11 am
Bruce, do you know which airplane that is in JMA's first photo, on the stick? Usually I can figure it out using Google, but not in this case. My only clue is the painted top of the nacelles, which makes me think 900, but I don't have much confidence in that.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 06, 2024, 08:10:29 am
Love a good mystery, i'll do some digging. 

Another Mexico 980, museum piece now it seems:
https://airfighters.com/photo/274853/M/Mexico-Air-Force/Rockwell-Aero-Commander-695/3963/
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on February 06, 2024, 01:16:14 pm
Bruce, do you know which airplane that is in JMA's first photo, on the stick? Usually I can figure it out using Google, but not in this case. My only clue is the painted top of the nacelles, which makes me think 900, but I don't have much confidence in that.

Still trying to figure out if it’s a 900 or 1000. Out of 28 900’s, a few have vanished into Mexico and SA.  The exhaust is the easiest way but only if it wasn’t converted and this plane seems to have the larger pipes but the straight cut fairing.  So in 5 min, no, I can’t figure it out.

Then you have the serial number swaps.  So a plane could be identified as on serial number and shows up as a different one. As is case with 1000 Sn 77 that is actually an early 900. 
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on February 06, 2024, 01:19:22 pm
Love a good mystery, i'll do some digging. 

Another Mexico 980, museum piece now it seems:
https://airfighters.com/photo/274853/M/Mexico-Air-Force/Rockwell-Aero-Commander-695/3963/

One thing for sure, it’s not sn 96010 like the caption says!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 06, 2024, 01:34:33 pm
95010, too easy!

https://www.planelogger.com/Aircraft/Registration/3963/607487
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 06, 2024, 01:36:55 pm
True- Was thinking maybe a typo 95010 like you DonV, but 95010 is showing still active as YV0154???

Another shows same plane with 980 on wingtip, but look at the prop in original pic and nose cone in below, seem very small to me.

https://www.airhistory.net/photo/561937/3963
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 06, 2024, 01:40:23 pm
It's a 980, almost certainly 95010. And definitely a bit sad.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Roy on February 06, 2024, 03:32:50 pm
I'm far from an expert, but I'm with JMA on the small props in the 1st picture. And (I may be mistaken) it looks like the left engine's prop blades are turning like the old Century engines (counter-clockwise viewed from the front), not -5 or -10's (clockwise viewed from the front). But the nose isn't a 680 vintage either.

Who knows what numbers and "mod's" they put on this stuff down there "just for display".
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 06, 2024, 05:27:02 pm
Airplane is a 980-- 100%. Not sure what the deal is with the props, though. They kind of look like the test props Aero Air used to have for use in their engine test stand.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on February 07, 2024, 06:36:40 pm
Airplane is a 980-- 100%. Not sure what the deal is with the props, though. They kind of look like the test props Aero Air used to have for use in their engine test stand.

The prop is 2 pc spinner like a Shrike with updated Hartzell compact props.  Or sometimes they grind down what’s left of the blades after a crash so they look short, but not in this case.

You can’t even be sure it’s a 980 unless you go serial number hunting on the plane. Trust me on this - you can’t trust anything that’s been down there. I’ve watched people lose millions. That repo guy on TV took advantage of someone in one case even though I told him in advance.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 07, 2024, 07:28:59 pm
That's a fair point. Would you agree that it is a Jetprop (840 or 980), at least?
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on February 08, 2024, 07:19:10 pm
For sure. And you’re probably right on with 95010
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: JMA on February 21, 2024, 09:15:47 am
Forgive my fascination with history.  Wish it was still 1981.   
Anyone have old pics of commander plant or the unsold commanders in a field during the 80's drought?

As Bruce provided earlier, seen in the attached pic.  I assume the completed airframes would cross NW50 St via a taxiway that no longer exists?  Does anyone know what building performed what function? 
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Barry Collman on February 26, 2024, 08:36:17 am
Not 95010 and not 96010. The trouble with the military examples in Mexico of the Twin Commanders is that, apart from 20 Shrikes supplied as new, they were all acquired through having been seized. Therefore, the serial number plate is highly probably either "home made" or from another Twin Commander. Serial 3963 was probably re-serialled from ETE-1363 and although Mexican records show the serial as 95010, that is highly suspect, being now evidently YVO154 in Venezuela, having been seized from a Colombian example, HK-3412W in January 2006. The other image of "3963", being a side-on view, clearly shows a minimal dorsal fin fillet. All Models 695 had such a fillet, as did the 695A up to serial number 96024. s/n 96205 onwards had a much larger fillet, on the instruction of Al Paulson at Gulfstream, who wanted them to look "like a Gulfstream III".
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Barry Collman on February 26, 2024, 08:54:02 am
Probably a 695A, but could be a 690D. Note that all 690D had this lage dorsal fin fillet, as did the 695A from serial number 96025 and upwards.
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Barry Collman on February 26, 2024, 09:11:04 am
"That is a question for Bruce Byerly. I would think even a clapped out 1000 or 900 would be worth at least $500k or more."

The details uploaded for this image quotes the serial number as 96056, which I think is wrong. The confusion possibly arises from other images of it with the Mexican AF serial "3958" showing on the nosewheel door. I think 3918 is serial number 96041, while 3958 is serial number 96056.
96041 started life as N9961S, becoming HK-2912X, HK-2912, HK-2912P and presumsably seized in Mexico, becoming ETE-1318, then 3918.
96056 started life as N31GA, becoming HK-3263X, HK-3263, HK-3263P and presumably seized in Mexico. becoming ETE-1358, then 3958.
But that all depends on whether the serial number plates on both are the original factory ones, of course!
We need a volunteer to climb on board and see what the marker pen serial is shown on the fuselage frames !
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: donv on February 26, 2024, 11:55:18 am
Barry, so glad you are back! Please come back more often!
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: SKYFLYER on February 26, 2024, 03:56:53 pm
Always great to have your depth of knowledge on the site Barry... Thank you I always learn something from your posts
Title: Re: Vintage photos
Post by: Bruce Byerly on February 28, 2024, 01:31:14 am
Barry!  Where have you been hiding?  You’ve been missed.