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Author Topic: Almost Decided  (Read 15389 times)

ghancock

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Almost Decided
« on: June 15, 2018, 09:38:35 am »
So guys, I've about made up my mind that my 680Fp needs to be flown by someone that doesn't fly as much as me.  It is a great plane and it is in great shape but it needs more attention than I have time for presently.  I'm not sure what i"m going to move into but probably not a turbine due to cost.  We're all sad here and wife is fighting me on the sale but she knows how much I have to do to keep things working.

The plane would be awesome for someone just flying 50 or so hours a year like most, but 3-400 just requires too much.  I absolutely love my plane and if there was anything I could do about the engines I'd do it.  They just seem hell bent on making me replace a spark plug or a cylinder after each flight.  To be totally honest, I've topped both engines with 12 new jugs so the cylinder problem is fixed (for a while).  My issue is that there are only a couple hundred more hours left on the engines and I'm set to spend $120k for 2 new ones.  A normal flight regime would make these last another 3-5 years with a totally awesome airplane.

So I think I'm going to let her go while she still has some fun in these engines and find something else that I enjoy flying.  I've always liked the Beech 18's and might go that direction but not 100% yet.  I want something I love to fly that I can fly into grass strips as I do that a lot.  I'm also done with the high output engines that eat cylinders like cotton candy.  Maybe one day I'll end up with a turbine but it is a ways off at the moment.

I've convinced myself to keep it 1000 times already so things might change, but at the moment I feel pretty firmly that I'm going to get it listed.  I've also got a new engine and tons of parts that would go with it.

Sad in Atlanta,

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Roy

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2018, 11:13:26 am »
Glenn,

Sorry to hear you're ready to throw in the towel, but can understand your plight (not first-hand experience but outside looking in).

A 500B with RayJays or other turbo might be a good choice, though not pressurized so you can't go so high without being on a sniffer.

Others will (rightfully so) reply about a 500U / 500S in the same light as the 500B, but the little Commander time I had in the 500-series (A&B) the -B with manual waste gate operation was my favorite.

There's always that 310 in the corner of your hangar (which I'm a fan of too!), but far from the comforts of the Commander.

No matter what direction you go and when, best wishes to you! No matter Commander or not, it would be nice to stay in touch with your future flying endeavors. It was always fun following along your trails.

Best,

Roy


Adam Frisch

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2018, 11:29:48 am »
Sad to hear that, Glenn, but I understand. You just get to a point sometimes. I did with my old 520 - one day I'd just had enough of chasing old GO-435 cylinders and non-exiting engine mounts. She was already over TBO and I knew I faced a $100K bill if I continued.

I hope you stay Commander. And I hope you get a turbine. If last years finances hadn't been so down, I would have been well on my way to a Jetprop (or an Avanti... ;)) by now, at which point I would have liked to see my 680V end up in your care. She's the perfect plane for you with her low operating costs, no recurring inspections and simple systems. Hell, I'd even carry half of the cost for you! But I just can't now and it's going to be years before I can think of upgrading, so she's it!
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

SKYFLYER

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2018, 01:53:33 pm »
Seems like lots of unanswered issues which I too have faced over the years especially about the planes I have owned.
Most always the issues revolved around money, maintenance, and what I really needed.

Went from a 680FL to a 685 and then back to a 680FL... the 685 was just trying to get too much from the engines and was still woefully under powered. Overhauls were beyond reasonable especially if you ended up needing a main bearing which only one shop on the planet has.
At that time there were no worries about Avgas or the future availability of or I would never have bought the 685 and instead purchased a turbine. So I was a couple of years late getting into a turbine.

Now with the 100LL "drop-in" substitutes research halted by the FAA last week, it would appear that the one remaining 100LL refiner left in the USA could stop production and convert to a more environmentally acceptable product and leave 100LL in the abyss.
If the EPA gets it's way... well who knows

So motors pretty much make the plane or value of it at least.

The entry cost to a turbine is pretty hefty, no question there, but the turbine's utility and reliability for dispatch is unequaled by pretty much any piston powered aircraft out there.

I suppose what I am trying to say is leaving the Commander for another piston powered aircraft might be futile unless it has a mogas STC.

Fly your Commander until the compressions hit 70 then sell all your aircraft, amass your funds and roll into a 690 A or B.
Your wife will be happy, your business flying enjoyable, not to mention profitable and your wallet not too flat after you roll into a turbine.

Life will be good as it should be.

Just my old age view of my younger days when I should have been looking more to the future.

   

donv

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2018, 02:44:41 pm »
Glenn, sorry to hear that but I think you're making the right choice.

As you know, I think you should figure out a way to get into a 690 if at all possible, but failing that a 500B/U/S would be a great alternative. Much cheaper and simpler to operate than the 680F(p) and yet with the same cabin and much of the same utility.

I really hope you can find someone who will take your 680 and want to love it and keep it flying. It has to be about the best one still in existence!

ghancock

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2018, 03:52:03 pm »
Thanks guys and yes, I know where I want to be when I grow up (in size of bank account) but right now just isn't there.  The Beech 18 does have MOGas STC and I hear they run really well off it.  Right now I'm not sure what I'm going to do, only that I need something I can fly cross country and land on 2500' grass strips if I wanted.

I'm not going anywhere from the forum though and will let you guys know where I end up.

Thanks again,

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Steve binnette

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2018, 04:08:08 pm »
I have to agree with Don  he summed it up nicely.

I don’t think A twin beech is what you want if you plan on flying 3-400hrs a year..

I love the twin beeches but I think you would be trading  one set of problems for another.

My vote would be to get a 500 until you can swing a 690.


Bruce Byerly

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2018, 12:56:46 am »
I had a serious twin beech fetish a few years ago. I contacted an old friend in LA to go look at one I was going to buy. He owned a 500S but had a ton of Beech 18 experience.  At the end of the day, after listening to me and considering all the issues, my 80 year old friend and mentor just said “son, that’s why they invented Commanders.”  I laughed but knew what he said was true! 

Glenn, to be frank, I respect all your efforts with your plane and appreciate how much work you’ve done on your own. I can also completely appreciate the need for reliable transportation.  I think had you started with a 500S, you wouldn’t be making this post and for that matter, we probably wouldn’t be enjoying your website as you wouldn’t need to be seeking help and fraternal support as you work to keep it going.  So it’s a little tough for everyone I suppose to see you sell.  Not sure where you go from here but I hope you find a good home for yours and consider a 500 for a runner!  It’s a natural step!  ;)

ghancock

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2018, 10:42:08 am »
I really don't want to get rid of my plane.  I have about gotten it where it should be but there are just systems on it that can't be supported when flying like I fly.  I would love to stay in the commander family and the 500S would be a nice fit.  There are just not many out there and the ones that are have very large TT values.  Gary has 1 in Tennessee listed that looks interesting but it has the Mr. RPM engine conversion and wondering if I'm not stepping from one large horse power monster to another with the same types of problems?  Or are the 400hp 540's somehow better?

Any plane I get is going to be work, I know this.  But I want reliable engines that don't eat themselves all the time and the 18's do have extremely reliable engines on them.  When you talk about them being hard to maintain or requiring a lot of work, is it engine stuff or airframe? 

I'm honestly down to 2 airplanes that fit my needs and is capable of flying where I fly.  The 18 and pretty much any Commander, bar the 685 or 680FLP.

I'm also going to need to move my airplane which I'm not sure how that will go either.

To make matters worse I'm sick about who will buy her because she deserves to be flown.  Just not nearly as much as I am doing.

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

donv

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2018, 11:15:39 am »
A Beech 18 is another antique, with antique issues just like your 680. And on top of that, from a financial point of view, I imagine it will be much more expensive.

Bruce Byerly

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2018, 02:12:05 pm »
Beech 18 = 55 gal drums of oil, longer & dirtier preflights, lower, slower, louder on more fuel, and plenty of maintenance required by experts no longer easy to find.  Very cool planes but way, Way less practical than a good Shrike.  There are several excellent Shrikes available unadvertised.  The 720 powered super Shrike is great and I’ve actually thought I need to go fly it to see if it does what I recall, but I’m thinking the 540’s are a great match for the Shrike.

That said, Glenn, I encourage you to get an 18 as long as you’re offering rides!  I’ll buy the coal!

Roy

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2018, 06:59:38 pm »
The Mr. RPM 400HP engines are IO-720's, so add another two cylinders on each side.

No experience with them personally, other than Morris had one back in the days I worked next door (and was lucky enough to cross the ramp to his side and fly some of his on occasion), so can provide zero feedback on them. The idea of 400HP per side when buzzing around mostly in 500A's (or non-Commanders) did sound real sexy though...

Roy

donv

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #12 on: June 17, 2018, 01:08:02 am »
Glenn, since you seem to like antiques so much (seriously, Beech 18?), I would suggest you do this: trade your 310 in on a Shrike of some sort. I'm sure Bruce or the guys at Eagle Creek could help you make that happen.

Then, use the Shrike for traveling and keep your 680 for messing around with. Or sell the 680 and get a Beech 18... or maybe a Lockheed Lodestar or something like that? Ford Tri-Motor?

Jeff Johnson

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #13 on: June 17, 2018, 11:27:12 pm »
I know it doesn't fly perfectly into a 2500' grass strip....  But it would make it! 

Its the route I took and so far am quite happy with the decision. 

Aerostar 601p short props and intercoolers. 

Ive made some pretty short landings as well.  I bet it would work if you were careful.

Then we all can enjoy becoming a better more complete Ted Smith message board  :)


Adam Frisch

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Re: Almost Decided
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2018, 12:29:03 am »
Jeff, loved my Aerostar. But they're not short field planes. Anything below 3000, unless you're light, is a little clenching. They're also terrible climbers before blue line - you'll find that from rotation at around 85-90 up to blue line, they'll just hang there forever and build slow. After blue line they climb great. I got 1500ft/min out of mine on colder days.

Wonderful aircraft, but very different from Commanders.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2018, 01:12:31 am by Adam Frisch »
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.