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Author Topic: ADS-B and RVSM  (Read 159 times)

KenFlo

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ADS-B and RVSM
« on: January 04, 2019, 05:50:28 pm »
From what I am reading, Jan 22 a new rule goes into effect allowing ADS-B In and Out aircraft to fly in RVSM altitudes.  Minimum equipment requirements are two altimeters, auto pilot capable of +- 135 feet in smooth air, altitude alert if you exceed 300 feet from altitude assigned, and pilot trained in RVSM opns.  No more application required. 
  For you smart guys out there, am I reading this correctly? 

SKYFLYER

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Re: ADS-B and RVSM
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2019, 10:30:50 pm »
You are correct.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2018-12-21/pdf/2018-27401.pdf

The proposed rule change actually had just two changes made in the final regs.

I for one am happy to see it.

donv

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Re: ADS-B and RVSM
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2019, 11:11:34 pm »
That is correct, although I don't believe it's quite that simple. What this did was do away with the requirement to get an LOA from the FAA to operate in RVSM airspace. The altimetry still has to be certified to meet RVSM standards, which is the expensive part.

KenFlo

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Re: ADS-B and RVSM
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2019, 09:31:41 am »
The altimeter certification was part of the application package.  Not sure what documentation will be required going forward.  It may turn out that its not that bad since ATC has altitude readouts from the ADS-B.  Records are kept for each flight and those flights that exceed the baseline, operators will be notified.  Maybe as long as you have the minimum equipment specified in App G, all of the expensive testing and altimeters might not be needed.
  Pilots can take an on-line course for 40 bucks to meet the knowledge requirement.
More may be coming....I talked to AOPA and they are meeting soon with the FAA to discuss this and what will be expected.  At least this is a step in the right direction.
  I usually fly my 690B FL250-FL260...so I really don't have to have it, it would be nice if I could do 29-30 to get through some storms or take advantage of big tailwinds.  Thanks for the input!

SKYFLYER

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Re: ADS-B and RVSM
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2019, 10:34:06 am »
For you to have RVSM will just be another rung on the ladder of safety knowing you can have those flight levels if you need them. The altimeter certs are pretty easy with the measuring stations along the Eastern seaboard. I suspect that there are some not far from you as well. The "alerter" is what most systems do not have and would need to be installed.
So an hour with an A&I onboard should get you the certs you need and both altimeters tweaked so that they are both within the limits at the RVSM flight levels.
Your auto-pilot will need the A&I to certify it meets the operational limits as well.

donv

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Re: ADS-B and RVSM
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2019, 11:30:26 am »
I highly doubt the stock Commander altimetry system would meet the accuracy requirements for RVSM. That's why the RVSM certification is expensive-- it's not just the testing (which is a non-event).  It requires new equipment, and possibly upgrades to the pitot/static system. You also have to have 3 altimeters, which you already do if you have a G600 or G950.

SKYFLYER

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Re: ADS-B and RVSM
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2019, 11:43:30 am »
His system is NOT "stock" as he has a G600 and the pitot/static system does not change... at least on mine it did not.
And I was referencing his aircraft NOT Commanders in general.

I agree that most original or "stock" Commander panels would not pass muster for RVSM.

donv

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Re: ADS-B and RVSM
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2019, 12:01:23 pm »
I have a G600 as well, and ADS-B, but I doubt it magically now qualifies for RVSM with no additional equipment or work. Although that would be cool if it were true!

donv

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Re: ADS-B and RVSM
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2019, 12:07:15 pm »
I just looked at the requirements. Both the autopilot and the altimetry system have to meet certain performance requirements. I doubt the AP-106  meets those requirements, at least in stock form, but again, I could be wrong. I really have no idea if the altimetry requirements are met with the G600-- maybe they are.

donv

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Re: ADS-B and RVSM
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2019, 12:17:03 pm »
I read a bit more. Unless you have information which says otherwise, all this does is remove the monitoring requirement and the requirement to apply for an LOA from the FAA. The equipment requirements and certification requirements remain the same, unless the FAA says otherwise.

KenFlo

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Re: ADS-B and RVSM
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2019, 08:06:56 am »
No doubt there are some things to be sorted out here.  It might be possible with a G600 and KFC 300 to pass the system requirements.  And it may turn out that a flight check with an AI on board certifying the results with an annotation in the log book may be all that is required.
  I think the FAA whole point in this rule change is that ADS-B out gives ATC a very accurate altitude and position readout maybe eliminating expensive altimeters and RVSM certs.  Otherwise, what is the real point here.  The intent seems to be that ADS-B out aircraft provide ATC with sufficient, accurate,  and confident altitude information that allows aircraft to operate in RVSM altitudes with the requisite level of safety. Before that, the only way they had confidence that you could operate in those altitudes was to require expensive equipment, go through testing, and apply for the certification documenting all that you did.  Now they seem to be saying if your current system can fly to these standards and you have ADS-B, you can fly above FL280.
Time will tell but lets hope it gets easier rather than just eliminating paperwork.  I appreciate all of the comments!

donv

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Re: ADS-B and RVSM
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2019, 10:42:09 am »
No, the real point was eliminating the very cumbersome and time-consuming FAA letter of authorization process. Since most new airplanes capable of flying above FL280 come from the factory already equipped for RVSM, why go through a big dog and pony show for the FAA to prove it again?

Unless someone can show me otherwise, there is no change to the equipment requirements.