Partial Panel

[donv]

Good to know,  I had a failure of my g600 not related to updates.

I was taxing out with Barry for some training and I see the pfd side of my g600 go milky white then fad to black.

Nav side was working fine.  Once we got out to the run up area I remove all electrical power from the aircraft.  Generators off and batt off.

We waited a bit then powered everything back up.  It worked the pfd side looked good and we started to brief the departure.  Unfortunately in less than a minute it went milky white then faded to black again.

We taxied  back, no avionics help available on the weekend, I had to wait until Monday.

Ultimately the avionics tech just popped out the g600 and shipped it back to garmin.  I was told the cost from garmin for the overhaul/ exchange will be $2250.

This could have been a lot more of a concern in flight.   My copilot side has a six pack and I have a mid continent standby attitude indicator which works great, so not really an emergency but definitely an abnormal.  No reason not to declare an emergency if you want though.  Would depend on flight conditions I guess.

I am going to fly to Texas to complete my training and I think I will include some flying from the right seat using the six pack.  I have lots of time flying from either seat it is the six pack and the HSI that I could use some brush up on.  Should be fun.  Steep turns without a FPV on a old small attitude indicator, yikes!!!

I think this is a great idea. I did it a few recurrents back.

I don't know how your airplane is set up, but mine is the same on the right side as when it came from the factory-- so smallish attitude indicator and HSI. The main issue I found was flying an ILS cross panel-- you could barely see the glideslope indicator on my HSI because it is on the left (I think?).

I have actually had an attitude indicator fail in a Commander-- it was a 690B, and I had to fly for real cross cockpit. This was long, long ago and as it happened, I didn't have to shoot an approach-- just descended through a layer and then got a visual.

I can say that I would certainly recommend flying cross-cockpit rather than trying to rely on the standby attitude indicator on the left and the HSI on the right in the same scan.

I am thinking seriously of getting a Garmin G5 as a standby on the left side, and possibly a second one as an HSI on the right. Or possibly getting a second G-600 for the right side, if I can still do that (the G-600 is out of production).

[donv]

In your case, the G600 AHRS might still be working (just a display issue), but one nice thing about the S-Tec 3100 is that it has it's own AHRS, so you can use the autopilot even if the G600 fails.

[Steve binnette]

I believe the AP would have stayed engaged.  Only the displayed failed.  It Just would have been tough  setting the heading without a bug.  The 106 has a remote annunciation so I could see what the AP was doing.  I should maybe try and cover the pfd up and fly it see what else would be a problem.

[donv]

I think the AP-106 actually uses the turn and bank! My avionics guy, when we were talking about some panel changes I might make now that I have the 3100, mentioned that I could finally get rid of it, as it was required by the AP-106.

The S-Tec 2100 needs an external AHRS input, I believe, so it does require the G600 (or similar).

[Steve binnette]

I believe there is a A/P computer that is remote somewhere, that is the big brains of the AP-106.  The turn coordinator is used by the yaw dampener part of the A/P.  So you tech was correct the turn coordinator is needed for the yaw portion.

The 3100 sure seems tempting.  I will get a bid or two and take it from there.

[Steve binnette]

Was there any weight savings with the 3100 install

[donv]

Not much. However, it does bring you one step closer to getting rid of your inverters, and that would save some weight.

The main thing my inverters do is power my radar, and the copilot HSI. I could get rid of the copilot HSI, but I think changing out the radar would be a big deal.

Was there any weight savings with the 3100 install

[PapaPhil]

I do have a partial panel story from quite some time ago, winter of 1985, back when a glass panel was the type where you'd tap the altimeter glass to get it to unstick, for those of us that grew up in gliders.

I was flying a 980 for a company out of Oregon and we had a trip from Seattle to Atlanta.  The first leg was from Boeing Field to Grand Island where when we landed it was -15C blowing 15 knots.  When we arrived in Atlanta it was about the same, 15 knots and something like -10 C, very unusual.  The FBO promised to hangar the airplane but when I arrived at the airport the next morning it was parked right where I left it, this can't be good.  It wasn't, the cokes I had left on the toilet seat had exploded, I could about do a chin-up on a prop blade, they said that their tug had frozen.  But the weather was nice and after a couple of series starts away we went to a small airport 100 miles east, with the left side horizon tilted and clearly inop.  The autopilot worked just fine though, hmm.  After an hour on the ground we departed for Dallas with thankfully clear weather all the way.  Enroute however it became evident that the copilot's air driven horizon had been frostbit just like it's big brother and we still needed to fly back to Seattle after an hour on the ground in Dallas.  It appeared though that with a westerly course taken for a time we could maintain VFR all the way so that's what we did.  Talk about luck.

[donv]

Phil, you were a brave guy back then! I'm not sure if I would have continued with the left side inop.

I did have the left side ADI fail on takeoff from Palm Springs in a Learjet 35, at night. That was interesting because, as you know, taking off to the north you need to do a right turn just after takeoff for the SID and to avoid the hills. I rolled into the turn and the attitude indicator rolled the other way. Uh oh! Looked at the standby and right side, all was good, so we kept going.

It was IMC at home, and on the 35 (as I remember), the autopilot wouldn't work without the left side attitude indicator. So come back (or divert to Van Nuys) and get it fixed-- and spend the night, or keep going? We kept going. Copilot flew the ILS and I did the landing, all worked out great. But a tiring night.

[PapaPhil]

Good you crosschecked, there was an accident I just can't recall right now where the left side failed and the pilot followed it despite the agreement of the other two horizons indicating otherwise.

[donv]

I also ferried Evergreen's old 980 from McMinnville to somewhere near Dallas, and the copilot attitude indicator was filled up with water! It was a day VFR ferry permit anyway (although, since we're admitting our sins, I did shoot an approach in Texas to my final destination-- didn't want to miss my flight home!).

I overnighted in Roswell NM, and there was fog in the morning. Being a good boy and respecting my ferry permit limitations, I waited it out, but then was in a rush to get my flight-- hence the approach!

[JMA]

Maybe i missed it, Don what was the 980 you ferried?

[donv]

Del Smith, founder and owner of Evergreen International Airlines, had a 980 he bought in the 1980s for his kids to fly around. A bit of googling tells me it was 95015.

https://www.planelogger.com/Aircraft/Registration/N655PC/607515

Like most of Del's airplanes, from the 747s down to a 182 he had, it was a bit rough. I flew his Learjet 35 several times-- it was always an adventure!