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Author Topic: Operating Cost (Estimates) 690B (N690GF)  (Read 2824 times)

aholmes100

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Operating Cost (Estimates) 690B (N690GF)
« on: June 08, 2021, 04:52:11 pm »
I did a post a year or so earlier when I was trying to figure out costs for Operating A Twin Commander 690B. At the time I had come up with a budget of 80 to 100K but did not included all the costs.

I just closed on the N690GF with -10's and thought I would post an update. I am comparing it to a Piper Matrix because that is what I had previously. My numbers are based on my research. I have tried to a little high just to have a conservative number.

I am accounting for all the expenses associated with the aircraft that I can think off including the payment on a 7 year pay off schedule.

Would love any feed back from current owners. I had a very difficult time putting together this data but with the help my earlier post and input from the forum I think I should be close. I did my number based on 150 Hr cost and 200 Hr cost. $ 4/Gallon Jet A. Based on what I am paying for insurance & hanger and certain allocation for maintenance. I would rather come up with a high number rather than lower number so over the years of ownership I can average it down hopefully barring any surprises.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2021, 06:45:35 pm by aholmes100 »

Steve binnette

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Re: Operating Cost (Estimates) 690B (N690GF)
« Reply #1 on: June 08, 2021, 09:43:32 pm »
I think your fuel number, landing fees and Mx numbers are high.

You can reliably count on 75gph.  Using that as a guide you fuel number for 150hrs is $8000 high.

I rarely pay landing fees or overnight fees.  Being a member of C.A.A. those fees get waived if you use those facilities.

Maintenance, my high years  have been 50k.  I would use 35k as a high average.  Maintenance is a really variable number it depends so much on the condition of YOUR airplane.

Don’t forget to normalize for miles traveled.  The speed difference has an impact.  150hrs in a commander gets you farther down the road than 150hrs in a matrix.

You really need to look at cost on a per mile basis not on a per hour basis.

aholmes100

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Re: Operating Cost (Estimates) 690B (N690GF)
« Reply #2 on: June 08, 2021, 10:15:02 pm »
Steve - What you are saying makes perfect sense. May be I am being overly cautious. If I can average $ 35K for the year on Maintenance. I would be very happy. As you suggested if my costs come in 15 or 25 K lower then it's great.

Made a few changes and updates my numbers as per Steve's suggestion. I put down a lot of money any paying it off in 7 years. With the payment's taken out the numbers for hourly costs are much more inline for owner flown from my research. Of course I am brand new to this so take it with a grain of salt. There are a ton of long term Commander owner that will have a long term numbers.

First attachment numbers with loan payments.
2nd numbers without payments assuming you pay cash.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2021, 11:04:28 am by aholmes100 »

donv

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Re: Operating Cost (Estimates) 690B (N690GF)
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2021, 12:52:50 pm »
I agree with Steve. Keep in mind, though, that if you go over 150 hours per year, you are going to be doing a second 150 hour, which will increase your maintenance costs substantially. My maintenance costs are typically less than $50k unless I am doing something unusual-- this year, I'm doing hot sections and did some avionics upgrades, so it's nothing like a normal year. And gear and props are another one... if I have gear or props as well, then $50k isn't crazy, but those are only 5 years each.

Steve binnette

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Re: Operating Cost (Estimates) 690B (N690GF)
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2021, 02:38:10 pm »
Don makes a good point about the 150hrs.  I have never flown more than 150hrs in a year.  That will change the MX number on your 200hr sheet.  It also extends you for another 150 hrs so bunching all that Mx cost into an extra 50 hrs does not give you a realistic cost. 

Other than that I agree with your new spreadsheets. 

I think everybody likes the general numbers associated with commanders. 300kts, 75gph, 1000fpm SE and $1000 per hour ops cost.  Some days you will be slower and some years you will be cheaper but these basic numbers seem to hold true for me.

donv

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Re: Operating Cost (Estimates) 690B (N690GF)
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2021, 02:51:54 pm »
I wish we had a "Like" button on this forum, as I would be pressing it for Steve's post. I couldn't agree more!

aholmes100

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Re: Operating Cost (Estimates) 690B (N690GF)
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2021, 03:59:39 am »
 :) Makes sense. I forgot about the 150 hr. Inspection. Thanks for all the input. Every time I learn something new.

Bruce Byerly

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Re: Operating Cost (Estimates) 690B (N690GF)
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2021, 11:58:08 pm »
Steve, you have one of, if the the nicest late model planes on the planet.  You did it right up front. There is a benefit to the higher upfront cap cost in terms of ongoing mx costs.  Keep this in perspective Andrew.  GF is a fine airplane but as you have witnessed, a few years of consumption and presumably low cost inspections by a shop willing to defer items leads to a lot of catch-up work.  I say it all the time but my theory on maintenance is to fix everything which will give you the highest reliability and safety and I appreciate you for maintaining the planes not just consuming them.

donv

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Re: Operating Cost (Estimates) 690B (N690GF)
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2021, 01:13:29 pm »
Bruce is absolutely right. And to top that off, some day when you go to sell the airplane, the buyer will insist on everything being fixed, so why not start now?

That said, my airplane had two cost-is-no-object owners before me (since new!), and it still had some issues to be worked out in my first year or two of ownership. Part of that is having a different set of eyes on it, part of it is that long term owners get used to living with stuff and don't even notice when something isn't right, and part of it is that it flew something like 8 hours in the year before I bought it.

But that's going to be true for any airplane.