Hello Folk,
The following is a series of raw conversations regarding TCFG members' thoughts/experience in regard to choosing the right Model Aero/Twin Commander to suit YOU!
These conversations are sourced from the TCFG Chatlist in the early 2000's and are strictly the opinions of members at the time.
While I am sure the experiences discussed are still as relevant in 2015, it should be noted that some key members featured have since passed out of Commander ownership.
Enjoy!
Cheers
Russell
VH-CAU
560E s/n 726
Types
Which one to buy?
Everybody on the list will have a favorite but here is my opinion
(For what it is worth) Let me try to answer some of your questions. I think
the best airplane for you is the 560-A. I have owned one and I think they
offer the best trade off. They have the same size cabin as the 500B, Shrike
etc. The 560 and 520 have a slightly smaller cabin. They also have GO-480
D1A, 275 hp engines that are approves for 80 or 100 octane fuel. These
engines routinely make it to or beyond TBO (I flew mine 400hr past TBO) Also,
most of the airframe parts (landing gear, heater, flight controls) are shared
with more modern airframes and parts may be a little more available.
They will not cruse 190. About 175 ish is what to expect but the fuel
burn is only about 25-27 GPH The geared engines are great pieces of machinery
but all models require a gentle touch on the throttle. DO NOT PLAN ON
GETTING YOUR MUTI-ENGINE RATING IN THESE AIRPLANES!!!!!!! The gearboxes are
not up to the task. You should operate the throttles as if there was a raw
egg between the throttle lever and your hand, move it slowly and smoothly as
not to break that egg! Never, never, never, never, never let the propellers
push the engine. This is not hard to avoid but must be considered.
There is no special engine maintenance items but some of the accessories
can be expensive to overhaul.
Yes, you can leave it outside but like all airplanes, it is not the best
thing (mine is outside now) They do tend to leak around the wing root
fairings but can be sealed up with a little diligent work.
What to look for? Well, ADs. The Commanders do not have a lot of ADs
but the ones they do have can be deal breakers. There is one on the rear
spar and another on the forward wing attach straps. It is an inspection and
I only know of one airplane (A turbine) that was found bad but it is a big
(read expensive) deal to fix. Next is the Hartzell propeller AD. It
effected 28 thousand airplanes but the Commanders were hard hit because there
are no optional propellers for the 560-A and earlier airplanes. It is not
enough to have "low time" props. If they havent had the AD complied with,
they are no good. Beyond that just check for the normal stuff, corrosion,
damage (present and past) and complete logs. These airplanes have more
systems than the average airplane so you are doing the correct thing by
gleaning all the info you can.
When you really get serious, call Morris Kernick. He will travel
anywhere in the world to perform a pre-buy inspection and it will be the very
best money you can spend on your first Commander. He is not cheap,but you
get what you pay for, call him at Commander Services at (510) 783-3041
(pacific time) He offers a discount to TCFG members.
Commanders are great airplanes and once you fly one you will be hooked.
They offer style and class and ramp appeal that is unequaled. They are easy
to fly (no cowl flaps, no cross feed, no mixture adjustment) and tons of fun.
Nothing flys like a Commander.
Hope this helps, I know others will give there options and you should
gather all the info you can. Good luck!!
Jim Metzger Director Twin Commander Flight Group 680-E N2222JS
GEAR UP, FLAPS UP GO LIKE THE WIND!
Hey all, I guess I have to put in my $0.02 worth also. I initially was
considering a 560-A(HC) and ended up with a 500-B.
I strongly agree with Capt. Jimbob that the best, best, best money you can
spend is with a prepurchase by Morris Kernick. I have had the great good
fortune to live only a 5-minute flight from Commander Services, and can
attest that there are probably only 2 or 3 people in the world who know as
much about Aero Commanders as Morris. In fact, I've been at his shop when a
phone call has come in from the Aircenter...asking Morris' advice because
they were stumped by a Commander problem! (Naturally, Morris had it figured
out after 2 or 3 well-aimed questions). Incidentally, he has an answering
machine at (510)783-3028 if you need to leave a message (the 3041 number has
no machine).
I eventually elected to go for the 500-B for a couple of reasons, all of
which Capt. Jim mentioned:
1) I was a newly minted private pilot when I purchased my Commander, and I
knew that I'd grind up those gearboxes if I tried to get a multi-engine
rating in a geared airplane.
2) I liked that there were new compact-hub props available. They were my
first purchase. Voila, no AD!
3) Personal taste: I like the flat-nacelled airplanes.
4) Useful Load.
5) Warning: I'm super-opinionated. But after 2+ years of research (um,
Cessna 210 & 310, Beech Baron, Cessna 340, Beech Travel Air, Twin Commanche,
Twin Bonanza) I discovered that nothing compares to a Commander. They fly
like a dream on one engine or two. They can hold & fly with anything you can
cram through the door, and darn near as much of it as you want. They've got
Aircraft-carrier-strength landing gear (so even my early ham-handed attempts
at landing weren't bad), and every other component on the airframe seems to
either be bulletproof or have a redundant system.
6) Cost: Before my purchase, people warned me about high parts cost for
Commanders. These seem to be the same people who don't get it when it comes
to maintaining their Barons & Cessna 310's. Granted, it was more expensive
than I planned to get the aircraft the way I wanted it, but since then, I've
spent very little. The reason? With a little TLC and preventive maintenance,
I've discovered that nothing breaks on Commanders. Ever. It's very rewarding
to only have to replace a part when it wears out! Plus, up high (I've got
the Rajay turbonormalizing system) I can do ~200ktas on only about 25
gal/hr.
7) Passenger Confidence: My friends and family feel safe in this airplane.
They refer to it as "the flying bank vault" or "the little Airliner." I feel
safe too. I have had a mag failure and also had a fuel boost pump grenade on
me, but they turned out to be non-events. She just buzzed along, happy as
can be...
As far as the step up from singles, like adjusting to flying with mixtures,
cowl flaps etc., that turned out to be no big deal, it just sorta came
naturally. Now, after 9 mos. and about 150+ hours in my Commander, I'll be
heading out for some recurrent training, which I'm really looking forward
to.
Incidentally, mine is currently tied down outside as well. That's the big
Commander drawback. With a near-50-foot wingspan, a hangar where I live in
Northern California costs more than my mortgage. Someday.....
Meanwhile, I'll do paint & winglets in February or so, and send pics to
Chris to put on the TCFG website!
Happy skies to all, and good luck Todd!
Excellent summary all around there. I'd certainly agree that the 560A
is a highly desirable model. The bottom line, though, is that Commander
really didn't build a dud in any model. There are various tradeoffs
in size, performance, cost, etc which in my opinion make the Commander
line even more attactive. You can start with a 520 which is a really
astoundingly great airplane - inexpensive to own and operate once you
get past the prop AD. Good performance all around. Then you can look
at a 560A->680 and get a nice jump in performance, a little more room,
and more capability. A 680FL(P) will get you a larger airframe and
even pressurization in the "P" yet is still an easy transition. The
next step to a turbine is straight forward for those financially able
and gets you into (at the top end of the spectrum) an airplane that is
in surprisingly comparable in performance to many jets yet at a fraction
of the ownership and operational cost.
What a GREAT lineup!
On another note, I'm making some headway on my search for information
on the elusive Commander 360. This was a "one-of" 4 seat Twin
Commander with 180hp engines. Due to some "beyond-the-call-of-duty"
effort by a sweet lady named Teresa at Twin Commander Aircraft, I
now have a set of three-view drawings! The 360 is simply a baby
Commander. Looks just like all the others - just smaller. Rumour
has it that the single one built may still be in existance (although
in pieces) somewhere. I would REALLY like to track that critter
down!
Glad to see the drawings of the 360 reached you OK from Teresa at TCAC. You
say "The 360 is simply a baby Commander. Looks just like all the others -
just smaller." It did, yes, but one BIG difference was the landing gear.
This retracted into the side/bottom of the fuselage. Do the drawings show
that? Also, I think the windshield was a one-piece item?
I'd be interested to get hold of copies of the drawings if possible.
