Stepping up to old 680V turbine...

[Russell Legg]

Good progress Adam - seems like Morris has gotten a reasonable run at it - nice when stuff comes together simultaneously!

[Willis]

Ha!

I should have learned my lesson by now - I always buy planes that need to spend a ton of time getting either serviced or upgraded somehow. It's not because it makes financial sense, and it certainly doesn't make sense from a time perspective, but it does allow me to pay as I go and earn. I don't want to finance planes, if I can avoid it. But this is probably the last time I get a fixer upper. It's just too frustrating the wait.

 

Adam,

Considering the purchase price, and the subsequent 'required and desired' work you've done;  Could you have purchased a more expensive, albeit, less troublesome aircraft?

Just thinking.  I'm in a similar situation.  The difference is, I do a lot of my own upgrades and maintenance.

-Bud

[ghancock]

Not speaking for Adam but I think it really comes down to the same numbers.  The difference is the one you fix up you know better and you know more of the repair was done properly.  Just because you buy a more expensive airplane doesn't necessarily mean it's going to stay out of the shop. :-)

I like buying the cheaper ones that need more love.  It's frustrating dealing with all the problems up front but in the end I feel pretty good about my plane because I know more about it.

just my 2 cents,

Glenn

[Adam Frisch]

Willis - I'm still ahead on this I think. Bought the old girl for $115K and have spent about $25K on her now. Might be another $10K before we're finished. She will need a hot section in 137 cycles (should be about 2 years flying for me) and that will probably be around $50-60K. So for $200K in total I get a turbine that I can fly for another 1000hrs, albeit with a submarine panel, paint and interior from hell. That's less than any entry level 690, by at least $100K. Obviously, any upgrades, avionics, paint and interior (as one tends to do) will take this well into the $300-400K range, and that's when it becomes dicier. You can get into a decent 690 for that. So the question becomes eventually: how much do you spend on this old one? In all fairness - this plane has pretty much all I'll ever need. I could just spend on it and make it my sweetheart and it would cover 90% of all my flying needs until the day I retire. But then again I've always wanted a Jetprop and I suspect that itch will have to be scratched eventually...

Glenn - there is something nice about having been along for the ride during all the repairs. You know exactly what you've got. I did the same with my Aerostar - took her from a run out 300hr over TBO plane to two brand new engines and mechanically very sound. Lost my shirt when I sold her, but I knew she was solid when I flew her. It's just the wait that's getting to me. Just had to do my recurrent IFR 6 approaches/holds because I haven't flown for over 6 months. That's what's getting me down. But I suppose it's like they say: you can't have cheap, good and fast all at the same time. So I've given up fast. 

[ghancock]

I don't know that much about the turbines but what is the difference in yours and what you're calling a JetProp?  I thought a turbine was a turbine.

Thanks,

Glenn

[Adam Frisch]

Glenn, Jetprop is the collective name for the later 840, 900, 980 and 1000 models. It's what Gulfstream used to market them under. They're basically the same planes as the 690A/B, but have a little longer wing. Some have wet wing and no bladders, some have a combo of both. All of them had either the -5 or the -10 later engines that can fly higher and faster. Better range. Some of them had higher pressurization etc.

It's just a more refined version of the 690 model. They are kind of the ultimate Turbo Commanders, if you wish.

[ghancock]

Thanks for the explanation.

[donv]

Just a quick clarification. All the JetProps have a wet wing, and they all have bladders inboard of the engines. Many, probably most, have extra bladders (the "long range" fuel option). The big fuel system difference is that the two sides are no longer connected all the time-- instead, each side feeds each engine, with an interconnect valve which can be activated by the crew.

There are a bunch of other, minor, differences-- the 840 is really a refined and polished 690. The 980 is an 840 with bigger engines. The 900 and 1000 are quite different in terms of the cabin, pressurization, baggage, etc.

Many of the service bulletins and ADs which apply to the 690 do not apply to the JetProps, since the wing was completely redesigned.

[ghancock]

Thanks for the clarification and are you saying the later models have never suffered any wing issues?  No spar requirements at all?

Thanks,

Glenn

[donv]

Correct. No spar issues. Also no window channel issues, etc etc.

That's one reason why the JetProps command a premium over the 690 series.

[Adam Frisch]

So, finally the windscreens and windows have now been installed. Windscreens were polished and repaired with a special welding compound so they could be re-drilled and better placed. Previous mounting had a lot of unnecessary PRC bonding to seal it up.


Front windscreen.


Front windscreen. Previous installation had the screen too high and there was a lot of PRC at the bottom to try to seal the gaps.


New side window. Got rid of the old vent door. Although practical for talking to line boys etc, they're notorious for leaking. Also looks a bit more clean and modern.


Alcohol window de-ice reinstalled.


One of my favorite looks on Commanders is when the window frame is polished and all shiny, rather than the usual black. Makes them look great. Morris advises against this, but I'm very tempted when the days comes for repaint.


Polished windscreen frame. Looks good, dunnit?

[Willis]

Morris' comment regarding the windscreen frame is about corrosion inhibition.  The current frame is steel and has been passivated.

The only way to have that polished look is to make the frame from stainless and then polish them. 

Im guessing, that fabrication would be expensive.

There are some plating methods that could passivate AND change the color, but not make it "Oooo....  look;  Shiney".

Black is also a good look and reduces glare and reflections. 

[Adam Frisch]

Thanks for clarification, Willis. I guess I'll have to paint it chrome..

[Stephen Matusick]

Very nice- Good to see improvements made during restorations! Sounds like when you are "done"- she'll be what you really want, which is the goal of every fixer upper I think.

[SKYFLYER]

The "new" polished windows look AWESOME... as for the polished trim... I agree the stainless is just beautiful.. so you might as well just go ahead and get it done!!
I have seen the polished stainless on two commanders and one piper PA-31P it really is amazing how sleek it makes them appear... I understand the glare factor, but I wonder how much of the potential glare would actually be reflected away by the surface of the window..