Getting on the brakes

[JimC]

When I got my transition training, I received the advice that my heels should be on the floor at touchdown and I shouldn't go up to the brakes until the wheels hit. This seems smart to me, and is consistent with training I've received in other aircraft.

In the Commander, it seems that I'm more likely to get a sudden squirrely turn due to uneven pressure when I get on the brakes than I am in other planes. It's enough to give the passengers a start, although I haven't come remotely close to losing control or exiting the runway (yet.) This has led me to be more conservative getting on the brakes, and I think the time from wheels down to brakes on is the biggest item I have remaining to improve my short field landings.

Does anyone have any tips or tricks? I'll accept the advice of "go do a million landings" - that's what I'm doing, but I don't know if there's a faster way.

[donv]

I always found piston Commanders to be very difficult for this. In a turbine, you don't need to use the brakes until you are going quite slow, so you can really ease into it. In a piston, you are still dealing with some residual thrust (or at least not flat pitch!), so you need the brakes.

I think practice is the only thing I can suggest... and I don't know that I ever mastered it in a piston Commander.

[kent4142]

Hello Everyone,

I am so pleased to see someone talking about this.  I have flown my 840 about 450 hours so far.  In the first year or so, I thought I was just a slow learner.  I would land the 840 and try to do reverse pitch and jump on the brakes for a performance short landing.  The airplane would pull hard one way or the other and I was terrified.

I tried getting the engines matched up - thinking it was the reverse pitch messing me up.  Then I got the idea to leave the brakes alone and just use the props.  Alas, problem solved.  I don't get on the brakes until the aircraft is significantly slowed down.

We are in the process of buying N121SP from Byerly Aviation, a piston 500B commander.  I had no idea the piston commanders had the same manners with regard to the brakes.

I did fly with one of the seasoned commander pilots at Byerly in my 840, and he did just fine jumping on the brakes hard - he said they were "normal" to him.

I think I get too nervous.  I am curious to see how your learning curve goes.  Thanks for posting.

Kent

[JimC]

I'm very curious to hear about N121SP. I missed that one by a day (I went under final contract on my 500B the day before it was listed. I would have grabbed it in a second.)

I'm better at the brakes than I used to be, but it seems that perfection is still a few hundred landings away. Switching between planes too often doesn't help.

Three seconds of delay right after touchdown is 350-400' of ground roll. Right now I'm OK with moving more slowly and deliberately, but it would be nice to get really good at this.

[kent4142]

Post some 500B pictures.

[Adam Frisch]

Did lock up a break landing at the very short Corona field with the 680V in the beginning, but haven't had any problems since. But my aircraft has the "soft break" STC mod (which I think is still available as an option), just to mitigate this phenomenon as mentioned, so I don't think we are the first to have had this problem. 

[donv]

The "soft brake" mod is an Aero Air mod, I believe. At least I know they have one. I don't know if it's available for piston Commanders, but it would make sense.

[Bruce Byerly]

Firstly they have to be setup right so if the pressures are screwy or any number of other maintenance issues then all bets are off.  Start there.  If you’re out west, Jim, take your plane to Mike at TWF and he’ll be able to tell you.

Cleveland’s on a 500 are the same as a turbine. The 500 has less rudder and shorter coupled. The brakes are more powerful relatively on a lighter plane.  Even so, there is no need for any brake mods in my opinion, they just make things harder to setup, more prone to problems, and less effective.

I think it is essential to understand exactly what’s going on in the system so that you can finesse when needed and man handle it when needed. The trouble is, the YouTube videos and 1/2 the guys flying them have a suboptimal idea of what’s happening in my observations.

[JimC]

I'm pretty sure I'm rigged right. I haven't locked a brake yet (even on gravel.) I've always kept the centerline between the mains, even on my first few landings during initial - and my very first landing was at Corona! Of course, it's not fair comparing a light 500B to a heavier 680V on that runway. We all know that a 2-3 foot swerve left or right is very disconcerting to passengers and that's the last part I'm trying to smooth out - even if I'm braking hard for a short strip.

I can now stop shorter than I takeoff, but the goal is to make those short landings even more uneventful. I'm also still thumping it on every now and them - I'd like to be able to get some real greasers consistently if I'm willing to give up some distance. Wet and gravel landings are generally smoother since I don't have that big tire spinning up abruptly. Practice is definitely making things better.