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Author Topic: AC95 crash near Chino last night.  (Read 39160 times)

Adam Frisch

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AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« on: April 14, 2024, 01:05:00 pm »
Looks like N965BC, a 900 or 1000 that went down near Chino. WX was terrible last night. Owner very experienced pilot. Not much info right now:

https://www.sbsun.com/2024/04/14/small-plane-crashes-in-san-bernardino/

« Last Edit: April 14, 2024, 01:31:51 pm by Adam Frisch »
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

seanmcgillivray

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2024, 11:59:52 pm »
Sad

donv

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2024, 01:33:20 pm »
That is not good. I used to see that airplane regularly in Bermuda Dunes... in fact, I am attaching a picture of it next to my airplane.

It looks like it just sold recently, and I remember someone in Chino looking for a contract pilot for a 1000... presumably this one, although there are a couple based there.

https://www.flightaware.com/live/flight/N965BC

JMA

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2024, 03:02:24 pm »
I remember you posting that pic originally DonV.
Sad all around, odd last transmission was "autopilot" acting up, turning me around"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=vqZNC7uay34

donv

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2024, 03:42:26 pm »
That is not good... I'm wondering if the airplane got some new avionics as part of the sale?

donv

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2024, 11:40:43 pm »
I'd love to see a panel picture of that airplane, to know what sort of avionics he had.

I think it's pretty straightforward-- descent in icing conditions and IMC, avionics acting up, lots of distractions, level off, get too slow (with icing the stall warning horn might not sound), stall, game over.

Interestingly the low speed protection features of the S-TEC 3100 would be really helpful in this scenario. I'm guessing he didn't have one, but would be interested to know if he did.

donv

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2024, 03:02:41 pm »
Rumor is that the pilot was very low time, no real training in the airplane... couple that with a dark and stormy night and it's a recipe for disaster.

Adam Frisch

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2024, 12:15:41 am »
Someone mentioned in the BT forum that perhaps he put the engine de-ice on too late, and as ice came off, the engines ingested a lot and flamed out? It's a possibility. But prob most likely he just got slow.
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

donv

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2024, 02:25:19 pm »
Some sort of flameout can't be ruled out, but it seems far less likely than a simple failure to push the power levers up.

He was at about the altitude where ice would have started to come off the airplane, which is where a flameout can take place, but I find it unlikely that a flameout (probably of only one engine) would have resulted in the vertical profile that resulted. More likely, a flameout would have brought his attention back to the power levers, he would have pushed them forward, and flown away and landed on one engine.

It sounds dumb that someone might simply fail to push the power levers forward after a level-off, but as an instructor I've seen it and (confession time) as a pilot I have done it when distracted. Ice makes it much less likely that he would have heard a stall horn before the stall.

The S-Tec 3100 has a nice airspeed awareness feature which will verbally announce "airspeed" and if the autopilot is engaged, will push the nose down at the same time. That speed is increased when the prop heat is on, to account for higher stall speed with ice on the airplane. I'd like to know if this airplane had a 3100, because if it had he might still be alive today, with nothing more than a scary story to tell over a beer.

FlyingFarmer

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2024, 02:46:51 pm »
Juan Brown at the Blancolirio channel on YT does an excellent breakdown of this flight using Avocado and Live ATC and ADS-B exchange.  Tragic case of multiple hazards and pilot oversaturation leading to letting the AP put the plane in an unrecoverable situation.  Prayers for his family and friends.  Hate to see it.

donv

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2024, 06:46:25 pm »
I watched Juan's video and I wasn't all that impressed. He seemed to want to map it onto the Roselawn ATR accident, which was the result of icing. I would argue that icing was a factor here, but it wasn't the main one.

Bruce Byerly

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2024, 10:11:12 pm »
Juan Brown at the Blancolirio channel on YT does an excellent breakdown of this flight using Avocado and Live ATC and ADS-B exchange.  Tragic case of multiple hazards and pilot oversaturation leading to letting the AP put the plane in an unrecoverable situation.  Prayers for his family and friends.  Hate to see it.

Does he? Seems like he talks a lot about what can’t be confirmed without focus on the report that the plane was at 84mph on ADS-B when it came unhooked. Seems pretty obvious what happens next. YouTubers looking for clicks are entertaining, I get it.

Don might have more to offer but I’ve found that proper Collins AP’s will hold onto the airplane until the servos melt down.

donv

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2024, 01:02:32 am »
I've never had a problem with the Collins autopilot disengaging in the Commander. Merlin IIIB was another story, though.

I'm assuming this airplane had a Collins autopilot and not a 3100?

I will say, however, that no autopilot in a Commander will advance the power levers for you on level off, unfortunately. The 3100 will at least try to alert you that there is an issue.

Bruce Byerly

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2024, 01:33:19 am »
Agreed. The 3100 has some really nice features. I’m pretty happy with the 3100 though the pitch up 10 knots prior to Vmo is annoying and needs to be better edited for each model’s limitations.

I have watched more than a couple of new pilots and even old pilots, myself included, wander around for awhile wondering what the autopilot is doing while I waited for them to figure out it wasn’t engaged. The Commander’s stability is generally a feature, not a bug.

donv

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Re: AC95 crash near Chino last night.
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2024, 11:24:03 am »
Are you seeing the pitch up on the 1000, because of the higher Vmo than the 690/840/980?

You might check with S-Tec-- that could be an installation issue. There are a number of parameters which are set in the installation process.

Regarding turbulence, I should add that I generally prefer to hand fly in moderate or greater turbulence. I'm just more comfortable letting the airplane float a bit rather than strictly trying to hold altitude and heading.