New Pilot Opinions

[Flyingcoyote225]

Hi guys love the board and am fascinated with the turbo commanders.

I'm a newer pilot, I have 500 hours mostly in a cirrus sr22 and about 50 hours in a SF50 vision jet. I've been looking to move into something with more speed and pressurization. My daughter has severe ear drum problems and while she doesn't ride with me very often, the pressurization makes her a 100 times more comfortable. My wife and I are getting ready to be empty nesters and want to be able to travel more and visit the kids that are 400 and 500 miles away. Those are our main motivations to upgrade.

Like I said I have 50ish hours of training in a Cirrus Vision Jet and it's an extremely comfortable machine but the costs are a bit crazy with their Jetstream warranty/engine program at 120k year before any other costs. While I know that is a "cirrus life" own it and forget it lifestyle it gives me and my wife heart burn. So we started exploring options. The piper M500/600/350 is too small, I'm a long torso guy and I don't fit in the cockpit so we ruled that out. We have a spot for a new JMB Evolution but the factory is being strangely quiet and it's making us second guess our choice there. So all that said we started looking at options again. We've considered a Beechcraft B58p, aerostars, and the Cessna line of twins but keep coming back to the commanders.

So all that said what is your opinion on a newer pilot taking on a Turbo Commander?  I do love training and if that is the barrier to entry I'm okay with that but what I don't want to do is bite off more than I can chew and put my family in danger. I plan would be to buy a 690/840 and put new avionics and autopilot in it as I have a 500txi/750xi/650xi/GFC500 setup in my SR22g2 and I love the system. Let me know your thoughts and thanks in advance. Sorry for the rambling 😂

[Adam Frisch]

You'll be totally fine with that experience. They're pretty benign flying machines - big 182's. Now, they are legacy planes, so there will be less automation than you're used to from VisionJet and SR22 probably, but nothing that can't be understood.

If your daughter suffers from pressurization needs, I'd suggest the 900 or 1000 model instead with he 6.7psi cabin. They're also real haulers, both of them. Load cabin up, fill up the tanks and go. They're a little more costly but you get the -10's straight out of the gate on the 1000 model (and most 900's have been converted too).

They do have huge 53ft wingspan though, so are harder to hangar. And with the owner of the type certificate now owned by a PE firm, we can probably expect the parts prices to go up. There are some pretty bone-chilling stories of the replacement costs of the windscreen circling, but barring that, the prices have traditionally been on par with other TP's. And the engines are for sure cheaper than the PT6's in all phases.

[Jeff Axel]

Your biggest issue is going to be insurance, especially with no multi time. I would steer you to an MU2 (sorry, I know this is a Turbo Commander board) because maintenance is a little less and the planes are a little faster, but with no multi time you would need 100hrs multi before you could train in a MU2. The newer Commanders with more fuel do have more range if that is an issue for you.

Jeff Axel
N228WP

[Bruce Byerly]

Your biggest issue is going to be insurance, especially with no multi time. I would steer you to an MU2 (sorry, I know this is a Turbo Commander board) because maintenance is a little less and the planes are a little faster, but with no multi time you would need 100hrs multi before you could train in a MU2. The newer Commanders with more fuel do have more range if that is an issue for you.

Jeff Axel
N228WP

Lol. I’m not even sure where to start on this.

[donv]

I think from a flying perspective, with proper training and mentoring, you would be fine. I don't know what the insurance market is like these days for low time pilots, but that might be an issue-- I imagine Bruce would know.

A 900 or 1000 would make a lot of sense if pressurization is a concern-- it is a big improvement over the earlier airplanes in that respect. It comes at a cost, as they weigh more, and thus perform a little bit worse, but given your circumstances, I would definitely look in that direction.

In regard to the MU-2, all due respect Dr. Axel, but that is not something I would consider. The MU-2 is a neat airframe with some great advantages, but as a low time pilot it is not going to be easy to operate. I also question the idea that maintenance on an MU-2 would be significantly different, and of course you would need to find someone who can work on it.

If you were going to look at an alternative to the Commander, I would look at a Cessna 441, but I think in the end you would find that the Commander is pretty hard to beat.

[Jeff Axel]

in my defense, since folks are LOL, I came to the MU2 from a P210. You don't have to be a super pilot to fly one, you just have to know and respect the differences between an MU2 and everything else. Once you are trained to fly the plane, it is simple. Just fly the speeds for the flap configuration you have and the plane does fine. What works in planes with ailerons doesn't work in planes with spoilers, once you realize that and fly accordingly you do fine. Maybe they aren't for everyone, but if you are looking at twin turbines, they are certainly worth considering. Not sure where the OP lives, but the planes are still very well supported by the manufacturer and parts are available. There are three factory service centers and several other places that are good places to go for service. If you are considering an MU2, you owe it to yourself to talk to folks who actually fly them rather than listen to the OWTs that circulate. Since the recurrent training was mandated in 2009 the MU2 is among the safest twin turbines out there, and likely the most economical to own as well. I haven't regretted the choice since I purchased mine 4 1/2 years ago. I have over 500 hours in the plane now and still marvel at the capability and comfort this plane provides.

Jeff Axel
N228WP

[Bruce Byerly]

in my defense, since folks are LOL, I came to the MU2 from a P210. You don't have to be a super pilot to fly one, you just have to know and respect the differences between an MU2 and everything else. Once you are trained to fly the plane, it is simple. Just fly the speeds for the flap configuration you have and the plane does fine. What works in planes with ailerons doesn't work in planes with spoilers, once you realize that and fly accordingly you do fine. Maybe they aren't for everyone, but if you are looking at twin turbines, they are certainly worth considering. Not sure where the OP lives, but the planes are still very well supported by the manufacturer and parts are available. There are three factory service centers and several other places that are good places to go for service. If you are considering an MU2, you owe it to yourself to talk to folks who actually fly them rather than listen to the OWTs that circulate. Since the recurrent training was mandated in 2009 the MU2 is among the safest twin turbines out there, and likely the most economical to own as well. I haven't regretted the choice since I purchased mine 4 1/2 years ago. I have over 500 hours in the plane now and still marvel at the capability and comfort this plane provides.

Jeff Axel
N228WP

Jeff, you should stick to the MU2 forums to promote your investment. I would never go there or anywhere else to promote Commanders in the face of rice rocket owners.  I grew up learning every four letter word flying in an MU2 with my father. I understand how they fly and it’s a miserable plane to fly compared to a Commander, this is a fact. I’ve also witnessed the aftermath of multiple fatal crashes on the FIRST FLIGHT after purchase from people I know who bought them based on recommendations from people like you. Is it cheaper? Yes. For a reason.

Blue skies

[Big Pistons Forever]

In today’s market the three things that matter are Insurance, Insurance, and Insurance. I suspect to get any insurance coverage is going to be very hard with no multi time.

The last time the market was this tight was in the early 2000’s. My buddy bought a Cessna 340. He had over 2000 hrs, most of it IFR in a 210. The insurance company required 75 hours of dual and then no passengers that were not immediate family for another 100 hours.

I like Commanders, particularly the Shrike. If you want to end up in a Turbo Commander, buy a nice Shrike and fly it a lot for a year. Three things will happen

1) You won’t want to fly anything else
2) You will be ready for a Turbine Commander
3) You will be able to get insurance

[EricDapp]

It’s harder to buy a shrike or 500B then it is a turbo commander these days.

[Bruce Byerly]

It’s harder to buy a shrike or 500B then it is a turbo commander these days.

Don’t forget the Shrike I have 

And, for the record, I respect an MU2, it’s an underpowered jet and has its place and props to Mits for continued support, but every forum seems to have that guy who comes on to sing its praises before they sell it for the next perfect plane.  It’s tiresome. Meanwhile Commander owners just seem to quietly enjoy their planes. Cheers

[Badger]

“ Meanwhile Commander owners just seem to quietly enjoy their planes.”

Amen!  And, I am one of them… for the past 18 years! 😎

[Jeff Axel]

Bruce,
First,I wouldn't have made the second post I made until your reply to the first one and your perceived tone. Second, my main point was insurance will likely be a problem. Third, my airplane is not for sale, nor will it be anytime soon. Forth, the MU2 is a good plane, but might not be for everyone. MU2 owners enjoy their planes also.

Merry Christmas,
Jeff Axel
N228WP

[Popeye]

Being a Cirrus pilot, you will find the Commander much easier to fly, stable, steady, and much more. Glass, as much as you can buy and will be like a SF50. Get your MEL, with a diamond, then train in a commander, and get your self a safety pilot that knows the aircraft, and get to know the aircraft. Its not difficult much less impossible. Insurance, I have a 680F and still find insurance. A 690-695 will find insurance as well. Go for It!!! there are more hurdles to look out for, like a good Commander for sale. Get someone that know the intricacies of the particular model you would choose. There are differences that permeate in pricing. Going thru a Twin Commander center would help. I have flown them all, including the Cirrus, and Commanders are adictive.