Windshields

[donv]

I have heard that windshields are now up to $110k!!! I wonder if they are very available, even at that price?

Apparently PPG retired the machine that used to punch them out, so now they are made by hand.

[Adam Frisch]

Maybe it's time to make them out of Lexan, ditch the heating and STC an alcohol weeping system like the pre-690 models have.

[donv]

I don't think that is the answer at all, but I hear rumor that there may be a cheaper solution coming, involving getting the same PPG windshield through a different channel.

Windshields are a problem on a lot of airframes right now, I think because of PPG.

[CMech]

I believe these new 110K dollar per side windshields will have a dramatic effect on the value, sales, and longevity of the T/C line. Along with the other Major changes that have happened in the last couple of yrs. Just my opinion.

[donv]

Can you expand on that? In a good way, or a bad way?

[appleseed]

Surely he is referencing Ontic ownership of Twin Commander.

I’ve had to work around their schemes with other planes previously. I wouldn’t have bought my plane if Ontic owned Twin at the time.

There is a corollary to the old “whatever the market will bear rule” something about the killing off the goose. 

Hope their tenure is temporary

[donv]

I couldn't tell if he thought this might be a positive or a negative for the line.

I believe this sort of price increase is happening across aircraft types-- at least that is what I hear.

I admit I don't know much about Ontic in particular-- they own the Merlin/Metro line, and which other types?

[appleseed]

They own many legacy product lines, but they don’t give a list.

Woodward prop governors is another one.

[CMech]

Yes. I think we are pretty much in agreement. I just bought an OEM windshield for the Hawker 800XP that I also maintain, from Textron for less than HALF of the cost of the Commander windshield. I was also quoted 47K for a NEW LR-31A windshield. Again , less than half. I believe the Commander windshield is probably one of the most expensive windshields in corporate aviation. I have not bought enough OEM Commander parts in the last 2 yrs to get a read on the price increases.Lucky for the 980 owner, it's been NON OEM parts. Boost pump, Deicer boot press regulator valve, stuff like that. And now you have to pay for most tech support answers that were free before the acquisition.       Again, Just my 2 cents.     

[appleseed]

I have been trying to learn more about the windshield issue. It seems like all heated glass windshield for non-airliners are in extremely short supply. I haven't been able to see what king air/MU2/421 owners have payed recently, but it doesn't sound good.

Hard to understand. Are new production planes affected? PPG has no competition apparently.

[Big Pistons Forever]

A friend of mine had to get a used replacement windshield for their King Air after the original one cracked. The wait for a new one was 6 months. They were told PPG laid off all their staff during Covid. Most didn’t come back when they ramped up after Covid and guess what making good aircraft windshields  is actually pretty hard when everybody is learning on the job so they are getting a 70% rejection rate for completed windshields

[gs2021]

Is the windshield sealant a typical wear item that requires replacement ?  And if so, how involved is that?

I’ve noticed we are getting some moisture that I previously thought had been sublimation when descending from flight levels if we accumulate ice as it starts to melt on descent.  Figure should make this a priority just in case this accelerates wear of heating elements, etc.

Has anyone heard if full windshields are back to a more reasonable price point?

[Adam Frisch]

Everything PE touches goes to s*it. Sorry, but that's the truth. They're gonna charge as much as they can in a captive market, load the company up with debt and reduce service and prolong lead times. Because they know you can't go anywhere else. In PE talk, this is an "inelastic market". They love that.

Brace yourself for price increases and long lead times across the board. The used market is going to be much more important to be able to navigate, but many pilots don't know where to source parts or where to look.

[donv]

If you are getting moisture between the panes, that is not a great sign, but also not necessarily an indication that the windshield will fail imminently.

I have heard that there is a plan to go around Twin Commander and get them from PPG for around $50k... but it will require a significant order of windshields-- like 20 or so.