WWYD

[JMA]

Curious poll for all owner/operators here.
As we are nearing the end of our 980 ownership (still a year or two or three ).  The discussion has come up about whether to "fix everything" before going to market or discount without fixing (i.e.- Run out the engines/interior/paint etc etc.)
I see what I would consider a near perfect commander N51DM not moving on the open market as food for thought.

No wrong answer, but interested in peoples opinions  (wink wink Bruce).

[donv]

If by "fixing" you mean taking care of deferred maintenance, fixing squawks, etc then yes absolutely. Any buyer is going to ask you to do that stuff anyway.

If by "fix" you mean new paint, new interior, new engines, then no, you will never get your money out of those sort of things.

Your airplane is somewhat unusual in that there can't be many, or any, one-owner Turbo Commanders left (maybe the State of Montana with their 680V?), although whether or not that adds value, I couldn't say. It would add value to me, but I'm not in the market at the moment.

[JMA]

Always great insight DonV, thanks.
Yes I should have separated into two categories. 

I agree a new owner will likely want to choose new colors and interior based on their own tastes.

We primarily focused considering engine run out as an example (regardless we take the financial impact), if we reduce the purchase price by $500K, the new owner would cover the cost, ensuring the engines have 0 hours upon acquisition.

Seems you have answered this though with "any buyer is going to ask you to do that stuff anyway"...  As you note, its been 45 years since we have been in the market .

[donv]

My take on engines is that I would probably leave them alone, but that is a more difficult call than paint and interior.

Same goes for avionics, for that matter... as long as it is functional, probably leave it alone. Although, looking at the airplanes on the market, the vast majority of them have pretty recent avionics, so maybe that is in the category of things to do?

[Adam Frisch]

Why are you planning on selling, J?

[appleseed]

I haven’t seen this many TC’s on controller in a while

[JMA]

Morning Adam, simplest answer- I am not nearly as successful as my father to maintain the aircraft that he purchased for business use in 1980 and at his age, insurance will soon require an additional pilot to fly with him at all times, something his pride just wont let happen.

[Bruce Byerly]

Curious poll for all owner/operators here.
As we are nearing the end of our 980 ownership (still a year or two or three ).  The discussion has come up about whether to "fix everything" before going to market or discount without fixing (i.e.- Run out the engines/interior/paint etc etc.)
I see what I would consider a near perfect commander N51DM not moving on the open market as food for thought.

No wrong answer, but interested in peoples opinions  (wink wink Bruce).

Re: comment to many planes on market, most of what I have advertised is under contract or being delivered now.  I don’t take them down until they are “over the curb and burning gas” as my car dealer friend used to say.  There is a decent market for good planes that are realistically priced with owners willing to deliver them through the sometimes expensive buyer’s inspection where the deferred items often show themselves. Some planes do sit for a long time due to factors I don’t understand, owners who change their minds, and owners who will only sell if “someone pays their price.”  It seems to me that some of the asking prices are kinda dumb.  But I get it.  Other factors include questions surrounding support in parts and engineering.  I attended another fly in meeting in Smyrna that Bob and John Hancock organized.  Twin Commander joined and I feel better after speaking to them than I have in a long time.  I hope that I’m right in my optimism but I can’t control the results of their work.  But at the end of the day, I’m still in it and miss the 840 enough to go buy a 690A to fly.  So I’m committed to the planes as a pilot, an owner, and a support provider. 

As far as fixing things, if you’re flying it, I have always personally subscribed to endeavor to fix everything that breaks and hope nothing else bites you in the ass in the dark of the night. I just left the 690A at another trusted service center because it needs some things and I can’t get to it timely.  As far as engines, $500k won’t cover overhauls but an operator or buyer may have access to other engines, or an “on condition” engine plan, so there’s not likely payback to overhaul just to sell to someone else. I have engines, for example, so I would not suggest doing major upgrades for someone else.  I do it sometimes. But it takes time and money and doesn’t always work. On the other hand, if a plane is due hots, or overdue for other mx, it can make great sense to get it done as a seller will otherwise take the “worst case” expense discount.  And if the plane is overdue and has a bunch of squawks, an educated buyer knows there’s more to deal with than may otherwise be apparent.

I hope you and your family can enjoy your plane for years to come. Being without a 300 knot personal airliner is suboptimal, I can tell you coming from my recent withdrawal!

[donv]

Bruce, are the fire airplanes depressing the market?

[Bruce Byerly]

Bruce, are the fire airplanes depressing the market?

Not really.  There are some really rough ones for sale but the operators seem to be keeping the good ones, late models, -10’s and even adding some late model planes.  We are configuring a fire airplane right now in fact.

I do fear they may come to market if the operators lose confidence and Twin can’t return to timely parts shipment.  They have been made aware.  There is no reason whatsoever to go from 95% parts availability overnight to the current dysfunction of a week or two to get in-stock parts shipped.  That’s a big part of the frustration and only they can fix it.  Guys like you and me can wait a week for a part.  Operators making a living simply cannot and will not.

[donv]

I thought the Forest Service was forcing them to move away from Commanders? Has that been resolved?