You know when its "Official"

[Willis]

Well, I guess its official.

Today, flying home from "Airport Day" at the Grass Valley/Nevada City; my wife says, that 'She's looking forward to getting a Commander'. [in the most casual "when can you make it so", tone].

Up to now, she's shown some trepidation about bigger planes. Today, she got frustrated juggling the mix of tablet and charts. There's not enough room in a 210 front seat to be flailing a sectional into submission. [we are transitioning in to the iPad/FF].

Yes, dear, Im sure you'll like it as much as I will. smile

Now, I just have to clear the decks and get it done.

PS.  the Nevada County airport hosts an "Airport Day" once a month....antique Cars, planes....and $4:00 Avgas. 

Oh....and BBQ. 

[donv]

So what are you thinking? Piston or turbine?

Grass Valley is a fun airport!

[Willis]

Definitely Piston;  my travel budget cant support an "Ecosystem". **   

Besides: I worked for years on turbines; and while I understand them well, they don't hold the mystery like pistons do.  In fact, I'd say I know far less about piston engines than anything else.

Also, this hobby of mine is very much a 'hands-on' affair and I like working alone or with a small team who are now friends.  Turbines involve more red tape and 'qualification' which raises the cost even more.  Phase inspections, Long term Calendar items.  Entire Cottage industries have become giants supporting things like landing gear and hot inspections.

Even if I pencil it out on a per mile basis, it still sums up to a large ecosystem.

Dont get me wrong, I think jets and turboprops are extremely reliable, capable and extend flying into a new dimension.  It just makes traveling long distance a requirement rather than a luxury.  My Missions are only about 600-800 miles at most.  If I had a turboprop, SHMBO, would make me visit relatives I'd rather not.

So, my quandary now is the level of complexity Im willing to support.  Im really enamored with that FLP [I see today its missing]; it has all the bells and whistles, but none of the red tape.  Its DOC rate is no different for my short missions or longer ones.  downside is; all the components on it are approaching 40 and I have to look at collecting a spares inventory.  (Ive got a 50 yo 210D and Im getting better at sourcing parts).



**" You don't buy a turboprop; you buy an Ecosystem"--M. Ciholas

-------------------------

Grass valley was fun.  4$ avgas and there was a mini-airshow and static display of antique cars, trucks and aircraft.

I saw a Chinese CJ-7? (Yak-knockoff), an Aerostar 602P (really fast flybys)  a Lake amphibian, a flock of Van's RV-6's

a 32 Ford coupe,  2 Model-A's and a 1972 VW bug. 

[Adam Frisch]

Willis - did this FLP have the IO-720 engines?

If not, you're looking at New York Air Brake hydraulic compression system, Skydrol etc. The NYA unit is total unobtanium. I remember Moe telling me the woes of just replacing a ball bearing in that unit - not even the ball bearing was standard and he couldn't find one in that dimension anywhere in the world. I think in the end he drilled hole out slightly to fit another ball bearing...

[Willis]

I did have the Mr. RPM IO-720's. 

Im not sure about the "NYA" system.  Is it the same one depicted in the Maintenance Manuals?

I do have the MM's for the FL, and FLP models and they show a high pressure {swashplate type} that provides the primary power at 3000 psig..

the 560's and 680F's still use Skydrol, although it appears they use a traditional gear pump for primary power (1000psig).

Maybe just as well its gone.

Is there a way to convert to 5606?  I have a ton of that. 

[donv]

If practicality is a concern, I'd look at a 500B/U/S. They are relatively simple, perform well, and are easily maintained and operated.

If you want something to tinker with, I'd go for a 680F (or an E). Might as well get the big dog, especially if you aren't going to fly a lot of hours each year. However, that's assuming you are interested in doing stuff like sourcing parts for the obscure hydraulic system, etc.-- there is a kind of fun in that, and if that's your thing, a 680F might be the way to go.

[Willis]

Thats what Im thinking as well. 

There is an old camera ship, 680F converted to MrRPM IO720's.  It needs a lot of restorative work.

First think is to remove the STC'd camera ports and restore the skins, floors and any structural work done.  That would be a good 337 right there.

Then the avionics, then the interior, then the exterior......... 

Im not sure what a MrRPM conversion does in the way of changing the hydraulics.  Im guessing not much.

[Adam Frisch]

I'm pretty sure the Mr RPM conversion on the FLP converted the pressurization to bleed air from turbos/superchargers, like the 685 did. I don't think they kept the old 3000psi Skydrol system. I could be wrong.

Don't discard the 560F. It's a lighter 680E/F and has great performance. Insane range - over 1500nm.

[donv]

How about this one?

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Multi+Engine+Piston/1960/Commander/680F/2076914.html

As I understand it, the 560 is just a 680 without turbocharging (supercharging?), so if you operate from high density altitudes, that might be an issue.

Or this 560F:

http://www.trade-a-plane.com/detail/aircraft/Multi+Engine+Piston/1963/Commander/560F/2164694.html

[Willis]

560:

Left Engine
12 Hours Since Major Overhaul     
OH Date - 11/2005 by Chuck Ney Enterprises.
 
Right Engine
847.1 Hours Since Major Overhaul
OH Date - 7/1997 by Lynn's Aircraft Engines.

This AC has been sitting outside for a while and not being used. 12 hours in the last 11 years.  They also mentioned some fading of interior, but only in some areas:  standing still and not hangared.

Pics of the wheel wells show two things.  some corrosion on parts, structures and some of the major hydraulic lines have been replaced, but not the brake lines. 

This plane needs a serious shakedown.

[JimC]

Are you kidding? That one's a steal! It's a *pressurized* 560F!

(or so the ad says...)

 

[ghancock]

Not Pressurized I don't think but it is a nice place.  Both of them look pretty nice.

Glenn

[Adam Frisch]

This AC has been sitting outside for a while and not being used. 12 hours in the last 11 years.  They also mentioned some fading of interior, but only in some areas:  standing still and not hangared.

Pics of the wheel wells show two things.  some corrosion on parts, structures and some of the major hydraulic lines have been replaced, but not the brake lines. 

This plane needs a serious shakedown.

Yeah, that's a bit of worry. Internal corrosion is a real thing on pistons and 11 years of sitting I can guarantee it, unless they've been pickled. Treat this as an aircraft that needs both engines overhauled, plus the usual gremlin-chasing of a sitting plane price wise.

[Willis]

[ New York Air Brake hydraulic compression system, ]

I see.  I think you meant that The "New York Air Brake company" made the hydraulic pumps and reduction valves installed on the FL(P) models.

is there a particular Salvage Yard that specializes in Twin Commanders?  that may be a good source.


*** 

I just learned that the alternate name was "StratoPower Pump".  I think NYA sold off that product line.  Lots of them on Ebay, if I can nail down the part numbers. 

film @ 11

[ghancock]

You can still find overhauled pumps.  I'm about to purchase one myself for my left engine and will be returning mine for the next guy :-)

Consolidated Aircraft Supply is a good source.

Glenn