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Author Topic: September Commander Fly in 2016  (Read 113005 times)

ghancock

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #60 on: September 21, 2016, 08:34:43 pm »
Couldn't get him on the phone so sent an email and will post response ASAP.  He is also going to be at the airport tomorrow around lunch so worst case I'll get it from him then and get it posted here ASAP.  I may post it in a separate thread though so people can find it easily. Look for a new thread in this section.  I'll call it "2016 Fly In Schedule".

Thanks,

Glenn
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You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Adam Frisch

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #61 on: September 21, 2016, 11:46:12 pm »
I should be touching down with Steve around 1-2pm. Hopefully connect with everyone either there or at hotel.
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

Adam Frisch

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #62 on: September 25, 2016, 05:28:23 pm »
I'm sorry I had to leave early on the Friday already, but glad to hear fly-in went well and had some interesting speakers. I wish a few more airplanes would have turned up.

Glenn - could you write a summary for us?

Here are a few photos:

« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 05:39:46 pm by Adam Frisch »
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

ghancock

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #63 on: September 26, 2016, 10:41:08 pm »
We arrived in Vegas on Thursday and there were only 2 Commanders on the ramp.  I knew Morris was there but no one else.  Upon walking into the FBO though it turned out there were quite a few people there.  The winds were pretty awesome at 25 gusting to 35 and here is a video of my landing and apologize for the language, got a bit excited there at the end and you'll notice how cool I turn (on the outside) after turning off the runway and speaking with the tower again.  It was fake as I was still breathing hard on the inside.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DxEtGuYzWKk

The first night we all just got to know each other and we grabbed something to eat at a local restaurant that seemed to not have much heat for their food as everything kept coming raw.  Everyone else seemed to enjoy it but I was wondering if maybe there was a heat shortage in California and couldn't figure out why everyone kept laughing at me.

Friday morning we all gathered at the airport and got things started.  Every hour or so there was a different topic and we all really enjoyed the great investigation information around the crash of our infamous leader last year.  Usually people make stuff up that has holes you can never quite work through in your head but his was a tale of facts that lined up and made perfect sense.  It also made more realize a few things about my own plane such as exactly why it is so important to place the gust lock both inside and out of the airplane. 

As the day progressed we heard from more Commander pilots and their stories of the life in a Commander world. 

That evening we departed the airport and went back for another night of drinks and food at a local restaurant and got to listen to Morris and One Eyed Jack and their many adventures.  I could have sat and listened to them all night as they were very entertaining telling of all the Commanders they'd flown all over the world.  The stories of how they got some of them running made you realize that with enough motivation and thought you could get almost anything done.

Saturday we got to hear about Steve's project of bringing back his Turbine Commander and wow what a plane.  Goes to show with enough money and attention you can make an old Commander turn into a beautiful and inviolable airplane.  We also got a good lesson from Morris on the landing gear of a Commander and how important it is to pay attention to things.  Also recommended rebuilds and the cost of parts.  We got caught up on Twin Commander "The Company" and some of the things they're up to.

Later in the afternoon we got caught up on the current affairs with the new fuel and had a good discussion about diesel engines and the likely hood that they'd ever replace our awesome sounding gas powered engines.

After all was said Saturday we all walked outside to tour the airplanes on the ramp and even though most of the people there had flown or drove in, it was nice to hear stories and get tips about the different parts of the plane from the different people.  I again learned a few more things about my plane that I need to pay attention to and it was nice to have the questions and listen to all the stories.

Later Saturday night we all got together for a very nice dinner at the hotel and and an auction.  This was no normal auction though as people attending brought all types of gifts to sell.  The money was raised to help host next years event and the stories about Moe (The previous owner of my airplane) were awesome.  I really haven't heard much but it was awesome that everyone had been so close to him and had great stories to tell.  He owned the airplane a lot longer than I had realized and he loved purple even more than I had thought.

We laughed a lot during the auction as our auctioneer (One Eyed Jack)  was quite funny had people upping their bids just by blinking their eyes.  I actually purchased his external gust lock with the chicken attached.  My son asked why the chicken wasn't making money and I told him the story that the crash must have scared the squeaker out of him. 

For some reason I won all 3 awards at the meeting this year but I think maybe it was because they were affraid I might not come back so giving me everything that had to be returned would be a good way to make sure I did.  It was very fun though and the group is a lot closer than I ever could have imagined.  We are very happy to have been let in and hope we stay close to everyone as time progresses.

Oh, and thanks for making so much fun of Moes airplane.  I've been flying this bird all over the country and spent two weeks in the caribbean with no real issues.  Now because of all the fun it looks like I've got a bad crankshaft seal and will have to fix that upon arriving home in Georgia at the end of the week.  At least I won't have to wonder what I will be doing this weekend.

I'll attach some photos as I get them uploaded.

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ghancock

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #64 on: September 27, 2016, 10:41:26 am »
Here are a few links to pictures that Peter took.  He did a great job documenting the entire event so it is almost like you were there.

https://goo.gl/photos/UBf28LfuLJs2Ft2u5

Here are a few video clips from him as well

https://goo.gl/photos/eKuYeqoD73GK8aBB9

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Huck-Mag

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #65 on: September 27, 2016, 01:40:24 pm »
Excellent report Glenn! Photos and videos were nice.
I am hoping to make next year's adventure, leaving for Prescott Thursday morning for the AOPA Expo.
Can you give more details on the discussion and believed cause of Jim M's crash?
Thanks.

Brent
N742W
1966 680FL

ghancock

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #66 on: September 27, 2016, 02:38:31 pm »
Jim's report.  I guess I should first state that I am usually skeptical about most explanations of crashes but was amazed at how detailed Jim's was.  First he doesn't remember anything much from that day so I guess that helps him put this all together because it would be sorta like him looking at someone else's crash.  Here are the highlights...

1) He does remember a thought about how he was going to have to take a lot more time to pickup a friend from the airport because he was now going to have to fly home and drive the car down.  He doesn't remember exactly why he had this thought though.

2). He knows and the crash backs up that he was in the process of going around with the gear handle in the up position and the throttles and props full forward and flaps up.

3). They got 50+ gallons of gas out of the main tank so he didn't run out of gas.  Both engines were running off main tanks and the left engine was defintitely running when it hit the ground.  The right engine wasn't running but ran fine later on the airplane where they set it up and cranked it in his shop.  So there was nothing major wrong with it.

4) After a lot of searching for a possible cause, they discovered the left rudder pedal was moving freely on the cross pipe that connects it to the rudder system.  The right rudder pedals were actually destroyed and bent in the wreckage yet they were both still attached to the pipe as was the right rudder pedal on his side.

5) They cut the pipe and retrieved 6 of the 8 rivot tails and they were not sheared off, they instead looked like they had been cut off over a period of years.  The tops of the rivots were perfectly in place and you would never have even thought there was a problem even after it was removed from the plane.  It literally looked like a perfectly installed rudder pedal.

So the thought is this:  He was landing the plane when the left rudder pedal finally became completely broken and fell to the floor.  At this point he decided that the landing was not going to be succesful due to no steering or braking and he opted to make this mess back at home where he could get things fixed.  He pushed both throttles forward to do a go around, picked the gear and flaps up.  However, The right engine sputtered as they do sometimes and didn't come to life.  Without a left rudder pedal he was unable to stop the plane from jumping to the right and crashing as he was already quite low and slow.

I won't go into a lot of details about the wreck but the basic reason he is still with us is the plane broke in half at the pilot seat and the entire seat was thrown over the fence and some snow plows with jim still in it.  If he had remained in the plane he would not have made it.  Also, he was luck he did not have shoulder straps because it would probably have cut him in half when he was thrown out.

Now for the reason and this is something I've often wondered when getting out of my own Commander with the external gust lock.  The question always in my mind was why am I doing this?  I have already installed the internal and it stops the rudder moving so isn't this overkill?

The answer to this ends up being absolutely.  The reason he thinks the rivots eventually broke out is the plane had sat for over 20 years with an internal lock and no external.  Because the internal is doing nothing more than holding the two rudder pedals locked together, it doesn't stop the rudder itself from being moved back and forth with the wind and external forces.  This makes it basically wiggle back and forth over twenty years against those 8 rivots and weakenend them.  Eventually they broke and in his case they would do so on the day his right engine decided that it wanted to take a rest.

It all sounds a bit crazy but when you see the pictures of the wreckage and the rudder pedal along with the rivots it actually makes perfect sense.  I forgot to ask him about the right rudder pedal but I would assume if they had cut the pipe on it the rivots there are probably also worn and likely close to failing as well.  Maybe he can take a look at that and let us know.

As for the topics, there is another thread here about the speakers and topics that cover that detail. 

Hopefully Jim will get on and participate and you can ask him more direct questions but he was totally open to speaking about it and sharing his ideas.

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Huck-Mag

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #67 on: September 27, 2016, 04:57:18 pm »
Thanks for the information, very enlightening.

Brent

Ltabidze

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #68 on: September 28, 2016, 09:28:01 am »
On behalf of Twin Commander, I would like to say “thank you” for inviting me to the Fly-in.
It was very nice seeing all the friends again and meeting new members of the Twin Commander Flight Group. I always enjoy my time with this awesome crowd.

It was especially delightful to see Jim and learning that despite all his adventures he has not lost his sense of humor and thirst for fun.

I hope everybody had safe travels back.
Looking forward to seeing everybody very soon.

Best regards,


 
Levan Tabidze

www.TwinCommander.com

ghancock

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #69 on: September 28, 2016, 09:17:43 pm »
Thanks Levan,

It was very nice meeting you and interesting to see what you guys are up to.  I hope we can work things out to participate in your next event and learn more about the Commander world.

Thanks for taking the time out of your busy schedule to come visit with us.

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ghancock

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #70 on: September 29, 2016, 10:17:15 pm »
Here are some more videos and pictures of our excursions.  The pictures are just from my cell phone along the way.

https://gshutter.smugmug.com/Airplanes/Fly-In/Twin-Commander-2016

Glenn
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You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Sergio Vega

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Re: September Commander Fly in 2016
« Reply #71 on: September 30, 2016, 12:39:07 am »
Nice!