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Author Topic: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?  (Read 13889 times)

JimC

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What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« on: April 05, 2017, 12:23:43 pm »
I'd read a bit about what's involved in upgrading an engine - but what about the plane itself? For example, let's say I had a nice 690 with run out -5s installed. I'm thinking of upgrading them, but my rich uncle just left me a pair of new -10s in crates on my shop floor. What's involved in making the swap? What gets replaced and what gets kept, and what paperwork is involved?
500B, B200

Adam Frisch

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2017, 12:33:50 pm »
STC costs, you need modifications to both firewalls, exhausts, mounts etc. I've heard it's about $100K mod on top of the STC, which is about $120K. That's why the Super 5 mod is something that's looking quite attractive. Only $60K aside and it gives you 80-90% of the performance of the -10's. But of course, then you're still on the 5400hr schedule, which the -10's don't have to follow.
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

JimC

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2017, 01:01:54 pm »
Who did you hear those prices fropm? Who owns the STC, and will they license the work or are they the only ones to do it?

Is there any work involved in an engine swap that you would *not* be doing if you upgraded an existing engine already on the airframe?
500B, B200

JimC

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2017, 01:03:08 pm »
And, of course - this should be under "turbine airframes," not "turbine engines." Feel free to move it.
500B, B200

donv

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2017, 02:04:08 pm »
I would guess Twin Commander owns the STC. I'm sure Bruce could fill you in, or you could call them directly and get the answer from the source.

Adam Frisch

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2017, 03:46:32 pm »
Who did you hear those prices fropm? Who owns the STC, and will they license the work or are they the only ones to do it?

Is there any work involved in an engine swap that you would *not* be doing if you upgraded an existing engine already on the airframe?

Those are Morris's numbers, so have not been verified at source.
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

BHARBAUGH

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 02:38:12 pm »
Twin Commander owns the STC and it depends on airframe. The biggest difference is whether you have oil cooler doors and actuators. If you don't, it I the expensive kit. The conversion from us (Twin Commander) is separate from the engines. We are airframe STC only.

donv

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 09:14:08 pm »
Bharbaugh, I'm glad you're here! Welcome.

Adam Frisch

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 09:56:17 pm »
Brian - welcome! Look forward to your contributions.
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

BHARBAUGH

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2017, 01:10:21 pm »
Glady help where I can. But I knew Bruce had you guys covered.

nrosoff

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2017, 10:24:18 pm »
"STC costs, you need modifications to both firewalls, exhausts, mounts etc. I've heard it's about $100K mod on top of the STC, which is about $120K. That's why the Super 5 mod is something that's looking quite attractive. Only $60K aside and it gives you 80-90% of the performance of the -10's. But of course, then you're still on the 5400hr schedule, which the -10's don't have to follow."

I disagree.  I bought a plane with the Super 5 conversion  (FYI there are only two flying and I am one of them).  Before I bought the plane I spoke directly with National Flight (the holder of the STC).  They told me they are exactly the same but Honeywell will not allow them to do the conversion anymore because they do not collect royalties on Super 5 conversions.  What was interesting is that even thought they are the same, the STC on the Super 5 has a higher EGT limitation So in theory the Super 5 produces more power, but at cost.

Neil Rosoff

Adam Frisch

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2017, 10:01:58 am »
Intersting Neil - so the Super 5 conversion is no longer possible to do?
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

donv

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2017, 02:56:30 pm »
The other thing to consider, for the OP, is that not all "Dash 10s" are the same. The Dash 10s used for the conversion are the Dash 10T, which I believe involves mating the dash 5 gearbox and compressor to the dash 10 hot section (or something like that?), while the Dash 10 on the 980 and 1000 are the -511k.

I don't know that you can put a Dash 10 engine which isn't a 10T on a 690, although I imagine you could on an 840 or 900.

nrosoff

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2017, 07:21:19 pm »
Interesting Neil - so the Super 5 conversion is no longer possible to do?

Unless National flight sells the STC to someone else, no.  They will not risk their relationship with Honeywell.


nrosoff

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Re: What's involved in converting an airframe from -5 to -10?
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2017, 07:28:15 pm »
"The other thing to consider, for the OP, is that not all "Dash 10s" are the same. The Dash 10s used for the conversion are the Dash 10T, which I believe involves mating the dash 5 gearbox and compressor to the dash 10 hot section (or something like that?)" CORRECT.


"I don't know that you can put a Dash 10 engine which isn't a 10T on a 690, although I imagine you could on an 840 or 900."  IT COULD BE DONE ON A 690D (WITCH IS ALSO CALLED A 900). THE ONLY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO WAS THE -10 AND UPGRADING OF SOME OF THE MOUNTING STRUCTURES FOR THE ADDITIONAL HORSEPOWER.