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Author Topic: My Purchase Adventure  (Read 335095 times)

ghancock

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My Purchase Adventure
« on: October 04, 2015, 07:27:50 pm »
10/4/2015

This is a story about a childhood dream that eventually came true.  It's also a funny story that once things started rolling, turned into a bit of an adventure (and still is).  I have been flying since I was 10 years old thanks to my Grandfather.  He had me at the airport most every weekend and flew with me every time I wanted to get in a plane.  I've been getting instruction and advise ever since that first ride and I hope one day my son enjoys the same world that I grew up in.

I'm not really sure when it happened but at some point I got around a Twin Commander and fell in love with the airplane.  Those high wings, big engines and low fat fuselage just looked awesome to me as a young kid and I swore one day I'd have me one.  Of course my grandfather was quick to point out it was utterly ridiculous that I got something so big and hungry for fuel.  It was way more plane than I'd ever use and I'm sure if he were still alive today he'd still be saying the same thing.

A few months ago I purchased Moe's 680Fp.  Of course, I started my twin engine flying with a Cessna 310Q that I purchased about a year and half ago.  It also needed quite a bit of work before I could start flying it but since then I've built up almost 400 hours in it and plan to do the same with the Commander once I get it going.  This story is about the preparation and eventual purchase of N680RR and hopefully the many years I'll be flying it.

I was in the market for a Cessna 421 for my company, but am really not a fan of the low wing airplanes.  My family has been going on business trips with me all over the country and while we've never had any issues getting everything into the 310, it is usually a bit stressful for me flying through the mountains out west.  Having supercharged engines and a pressurized cabin should make things a bit more comfortable on the longer trips.

I ran across a nice 421 and on the page where it was listed I saw 680RR.  That was it, I decided right then and there that if it fit my flying needs I'd be getting a Commander.  In my research, I ran across someone back in 2008 stating that if someone wanted to know anything about Commanders they should call Morris and it had his number listed.  I wasn't sure if he was still around or if he'd even speak to me, but figured it wouldn't hurt to try.

After the 30 minutes on the phone with me and listening to me explain to him the type of flying I was doing and wanted to do, he told me the Commander might not be the right bird.  That it would be more expensive to maintain and that 18,000 would be the top of where I could go.  He also said it wasn't as fast as a 421, nor as roomy inside.

My wife, 3 year old son and I were on our way to California and spent the night in New Mexico.  I realized that the airplane was only 40 minutes from where we were staying and decided that we'd just swing by and take a quick look to see what she looked like.  My wife had never been around a Twin Commander so it would be a chance for her to see it up close and personal.

When we got there, the plane looked great on the inside but was leaking oil really badly from the left engine and in fact from both engines.  The door was really difficult to get into but we eventually got it opened.  My wife still was not a huge fan of the plane by the time we left but I was hooked.  I decided that if I could get Morris to come out with me and he didn't find anything major wrong with it that I was going to buy it.   

Here is where the true adventure begins:

After numerous conversations with Morris and a lot of Google searches I happened across Gary Gadberry in TN who happened to know a Commander mechanic in TN that was willing to go out with me to do a pre-buy.  I had been trying to line Morris up but he was really busy.  I decided I'd give it one more try to see if Morris could come out the weekend I had scheduled the mechanics and as fate would have it he was available and willing to come.

The plan was to meet up with the TN mechanics in Texas as they had to ferry a 340 out there.  Then the 3 of us would fly to New Mexico and pickup Morris and then fly up to the final airport where the plane was waiting to do the pre-buy.  It was all coming together. :-)  That's airplane talk for watch out, you're about to have some fun.

My first stop was to get fuel at a small airport on the way.  I landed, fueled up and got ready to depart but my left engine wouldn't start.  I decided to start the right one instead and ended up having to get out to see what was going on. It didn't seem to have any fire so I decided to remove the cowling in the hot Texas sun and remove the p-leads to see if I could get it to fire up.  I tried to call for a mechanic but there was no one on the airport and no apparent services.  The guy I spoke with said the only mechanic was hours away and no chance of him getting there any time soon.  Luckily the p-leads did the trick and I was on my way to Spinks in short order.


Sitting on the ramp at Spinks

The mechanics were late getting to KFWS Spinks TX and upon landing started hauling out half their shop from the rear of the 340.  I asked if they'd forgotten we were flying a 310Q the rest of the trip and they stated we'd be fine.  They also reported their weights as true women would as both were a good 30-50lbs heavier than I was told.  Add in the 100lb battery pack and two tool boxes and we were at or slightly above gross leaving Dallas.  The guys were both very funny to hang around with though so the 3 of us were having a blast.

The storms had built up and were all over the place.  There was a quick talk about staying the night in Texas but I told them if we  did we'd be loosing out on most of the day on Saturday.  I had plotted a course around the storms and was pretty sure everything would be fine and if not we'd just land and stay somewhere else closer to our destination.  Shortly after departing though we realized the winds were a lot worse than forecast and we were likely to not have enough fuel or would be very close to reaching our destination.

Around 11pm we changed our destination to KROW  Roswell NM and setup to land there.  I canceled the IFR flight plan and we setup to land on the most massive runway I'd ever landed on.  While taxing up the taxiway you could just make out massive silhouettes of planes all up and down the runway.  It was late and the airport was closed.  We had to call in for fuel and the guy said he'd be there in about 30 minutes.  We took the time to walk around the old jets and scope the place out.  It was quite an adventure and we were all amazed at what we'd have missed if we hadn't run into all the storms and had to land short of our destination.  This was truly an awesome experience.


Walking around grave yard


Cockpit View

I called ahead to Morris to make sure he was still ok coming out to get us so late once we reached KAEG  Double Eagle NM which was still another hour away.  He said he was fine and to just call him once we landed.  The guys were both starving but I told them we had to keep going or we were not going to have a ride when we got there.

After fueling up we headed on and an hour later we were in Double Eagle (which happens to be one of the most well lit airports I've ever seen) waiting on Morris.  There is something about standing around an airport late at night waiting on a car to pick you up while everyone else sleeps that makes for an awesome day.  Talking and joking around with all the airplanes sitting there quiet.

For those never having the privilege of riding with Morris at midnight down dark country roads at 90mph, it might actually be more dangerous than flying through a thunderstorm head on.  The guys in the back seat looked like they were about to jump out every time he hit the brakes and it was actually pretty funny.  None of us really knew Morris at the time, so no one wanted to ask him to slow down but all of us were thinking we might be in some trouble.  Sorta like poking your head through that dark cloud thinking it wasn't very thick, to find out it was a monster.



On the way to KFMN

I'm happy to say we all made it to the hotel and were in for one more ride with Morris back to the airport at 7am to head on to KFMN  Four Corners NM.  I told everyone that despite their best efforts my 310 would not be lifting off the next morning with everyone on board.  I planned to fly 1 of them and all of the tools up to get started and would then come back to pick up the other two people.  This turned out to be a very wise move as we were knocking gophers off their mounds when we took off in the non turbo 310Q.  I seriously doubt we'd have made it with everyone on board.


KFMN Ramp

It was a beautiful weekend and everything went really well.  We found quite a few things wrong with the plane not the least of which was the fact that both props were going to need to be overhauled due to cracked pins and they wouldn't come out of feather.  The oil leaks were less of an issue as it all seemed to be coming from  the oil lines that just needed to be replaced and a few gaskets that needed replacing.  There were 2 very low compression cylinders on the left engine but we felt it was ok to fly home and do the work in TN at the shop while they were bringing it back into annual.

The plan at the end of the day Saturday was to spend more time Sunday morning tweaking things for the flight back and to make a decision on the purchase.  If I decided it was a go we already had the ferry permit to take it home and we'd fly Morris back to Double Eagle and then meet up with Andreas and the Commander at KOWP  Pogue OK.  We could not have asked for a better day to fly, so we set out around lunch.  Andreas was going to fly the airplane over the mountains and land just afterwards to refuel and to check things out. We were going to wait for him at Double Eagle to call and would take off once he contacted us.

We departed an hour later and headed to Pogue.  Again, it was a perfect day for flying and we arrived 3 hours later to find the Commander at the fuel pumps.  Man did she look good :-)  Then…

Upon pulling up we see Andreas sweating with tools in hand.  Upon landing he said he saw a cloud of skydrol blowing out of the left engine area and we were done until we could find some more skydrol.  He kept working on the plane while I started calling airports all around to see if we could find some of the magic juice.  Once I concluded there was none to have we decided that we'd at least find the leak and could try to find some the next day in TN and then fly back out to get the plane.


Arriving to Pogue and seeing skydrol all over ramp.  Not a good sign


My 2 170lb mechanics ;-)

I'm sitting in the cockpit pumping the flap handle to try to relieve as much pressure as possible when I look out the window and notice the front tire on my 310 is completely flat sitting at the pump.  At this point I put the brakes on the entire operation and told the guys they needed to plan to spend another night in a hotel.  Two planes down at the same pump wasn't a good sign and I wasn't going to fight it.  Turns out, this was where things got interesting, really interesting.

img]https://gshutter.smugmug.com/Airplanes/My-Planes/Commander-680Fp/As-Purchased/i-hZSn7wS/0/M/IMG_1947-M.jpg[/img]
Flat tire on 310

A helicopter took off across the runway from this massive hanger and started making practice runs with a sprayer up and down the runway.  We decided to go ask them if they might have some skydrol and this turned out to be the best decision of the day.  First off, there were kids swimming in a hot tub when we first got there.  We walked into the office area and found out it was actually a massive home in which they were preparing dinner.  They had ribs cooking on a grill outside and everyone was extremely nice.  Oh, and did I mention beer?


Andreas happily taking bath in Skydrol


Andreas happily beating 310 tire off rim.


We make him work for his food

After talking to them for a few minutes we decided that we needed to try to figure out how to fix the 310 or we'd be stuck there.  Andreas mentioned there was a Cessna 150 up the runway that didn't look like it had been flown for some time and that maybe we could take the rear wheel, fly home and come back with their wheel the next weekend.  That's when the guy that ran the hanger offered to give us their front tire off their 414 and would also hanger the Commander until we got back.  Oh, and did I also mention they gave us free beer, ribs, beans, salad and a car to drive to the hotel?  I told them if breaking down turned out like this I'd be purposely breaking things from now on.


Andreas happily stealing wheel assembly from new friends plane


Andreas and Daniel watching their weight :-)


The broken part on the Commander


The Commander waiting on our return


Waking the kids from a good nights sleep

It took us a week to secure the parts with the help of Morris.  We scheduled to return to Pogue and my wife and son came along for the ride.  The guys at the Pogue hanger left us a car and left the hanger open as they were all off on jobs when we arrived.  Andreas and I replaced the wheel on the 414 that night and the next morning we got started replacing the broken valve in the left wing so we could fly it home.  This took a couple of hours and upon taxing the airplane back to that pesky pump the right wheel started smoking like crazy and dripping more skydrol.  This turned out to be from a completely destroyed caliper that had been broken for some time but finally locked up.  The locking pin that attaches to the piston had become wedged in a 1/16th inch deep groove it had cut and just let the fluid drip out.


Taking a nap on the way back to get the Commander (there is a kid back there too but he's still up with his daddy)


If you look close you'll see the skydrol leaking from the left brake

By the time Andreas landed at KMMI  McMinn TN, all of the skydrol had leaked out again and he had just enough brakes to stop the plane at their hanger.  The circle of skydrol still sits on the taxiway to this day (3 months later).

Since being at the shop we've replaced the caliper, replaced all of the o-rings in every hose in the airplane, removed the floor board which didn't look like it had been done in a very long time.  In fact the metal was cracked in a number of places and 2 new panels had to be made.  All of the lines in the nose gear area were disconnected and checked and we flushed the tank in the rear.

We also had to replace a number of scat tubes as the skydrol had leaked onto them and eaten them up.  The wing inspection plates didn't look like they had ever been removed since the last paint job which I believe was in 2005 or so.  80% of the screws in the right wing had their heads stripped off when they were removed. The caliper had never been off the plane, I would assume, due to it being damaged so badly and I'm not sure why the skydrol system hadn't been repaired as it was making a total mess of the tail section.

I also had them remove the leaking fuel bladders and send them off for repair.  Upon doing this they discovered that whoever put them in, again in 2005, had used duct tape to cover the wing area and the bladders were leaking due to rubbing on the wing.

So far the worst expense (other than labor) was sending the props off to get them zero timed.   They sent them back 2 months later and hadn't properly fixed the left one.  They installed the wrong plates on the hub which resulted in shearing off 2 bolts and it having to be returned for installment of the proper plates and to remove the bolts that broke off.  At the time of this writing I still don't know the result of this mess, nor when I'm getting the prop back.

I've now owned my first ever Twin Commander for almost 3 months and was hoping to fly it to the Bahamas in a few weeks but it's looking more and more like the trusty 310 will be handling that job.  It has been killing me that I own such an awesome bird and can't fly it.  I don't think I'll ever have my plane sitting at a shop that I can't drive to as the experience has been everything but pleasurable.  In the end though I'm hoping I have an awesome airplane to fly into the future and that we have lots of memorable trips.  The first one surely will not be forgotten any time soon.

I'll attach some pictures later.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 05:40:18 pm by ghancock »
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Adam Frisch

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2015, 12:16:28 pm »
Good on you for resurrecting Moe's old bird!

It's a daunting task you have ahead of you as they are not always for the faint of heart those early Skydrol birds. It's not how one would design a pressurization system today, but at the time that was how they did it. I looked into both 680FP's and 685's myself, but in the end went for an Aerostar. Today I'm back in the fold with an early Turbo Commander 680V which is also getting endlessly fixed.

I'll have you know that I did share maintenance facilities with Moe at Security Aviation Inc in HHR. I always bumped into him there come annual time, or when he needed to come borrow a Skydrol mule. He often flew in from NM just to borrow that. Great guy. Security is a great shop and they do stellar work, so if there's any deferred maintenance on your new bird, it must have been to Moe's mandate. I also knew that in the last few years he didn't fly as much as he used to. And rarely IFR or in the flight levels, so the pressurization system probably didn't get exercised much. I remember how he complained that there was a bearing in the New York Air Machine pressure pump that he just couldn't get a hold of. They simply didn't make that size anymore. In the end I think they drilled out the hole slightly and added a larger bearing.

I wish you a lot of luck with it and I hope she'll deliver great flying for you and your family. It will take a little time to get all the gremlins out of the system, but it will be worth it.

« Last Edit: October 05, 2015, 12:39:50 pm by Adam Frisch »
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2015, 02:08:38 pm »
Thanks,  and I also wondered if maybe some things were being skipped on purpose.  At the moment the shop in TN, Montgomery Aero has gone through most everything on the plane.  I don't think we've missed any seals as I personally did a lot of them and we've checked her from tip to tail for leaks.  The pumps are still up there as unknowns as the log books didn't offer a lot of information on things being upgraded or repaired. 

However, for a 63 model airplane it's in remarkably good shape.  Looks like Andreas may have her ready to fly for the first time in 3 months this Thursday so I'm getting pretty excited.  I've still got a good deal of panel work I want to do and the engines are unknown quantities until I start putting some hours on them but hoping for the best and expecting the worst.

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Adam Frisch

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #3 on: October 05, 2015, 04:54:07 pm »
Yeah, those engines are no fun for the wallet when they start needing overhaul. There are ways to do it cheaper, but they're never going to be as cheap as a straight up IO-540 or something. But I ran my GO-435's beyond TBO and they did pretty good. I did top them, though.
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #4 on: October 05, 2015, 09:39:12 pm »
Yeah, I've heard all the downside to the engines and decided that even if I had to rebuild one or both of them I still have a cheaper plane than buying a New Beech Baron and I'll look better and be more comfortable :-)

--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #5 on: October 05, 2015, 09:43:13 pm »
Here is a link to a few photos that line up nicely with the trip.  I still have few photos on my phone that I need to include that were taken from the trip to get it. 

https://gshutter.smugmug.com/Airplanes/My-Planes/Commander-680Fp/As-Purchased/

Hope you enjoy.

glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Adam Frisch

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2015, 01:03:36 am »
Nice!

I remember now that I see the pics how Moe had done that wood veneer stuff on the dash!
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #7 on: October 08, 2015, 07:50:58 am »
Yeah, he did a pretty good job on the interior and it has a really good paint job.  I'm a fan of the purple about as much as you're pink though so that will all be coming off pretty soon.  The landing gear have already been repainted white and planning to remove all the letters and stuff soon.

Update:  I heard from the shop last night.  The prop shop in Gainesville GA didn't do a very good job on the props.  They first took 3 months to get 2 props done and they failed to replace 2 obviously cracked plates in the hub of the left one.  I called them a few weeks back and inquired about them as I didn't see them listed on the $22,000+ invoice they provided me.  I was told that they'd go check them real quick and let me know.  I never heard back from them but they did replace them.  With the wrong plates!   Andreas sheared off 2 bolts trying to get the prop to go back onto the engine which required it to be taken back to the shop for more work.  Needless to say I'm not confident with their work at this point and extremely annoyed at their constant (it will be there tomorrow) promises that they don't fulfill.

We're also still waiting on the remaining 2 fuel bladders to show up but they are supposed to show up today according to tracking.  Which means everything we're waiting on should be there today.  I'm planning to take off work and fly up tomorrow morning to start helping them as much as I can to get her finished.  We only need to rig the gear (which we can't do until we get the prop on and can poor in the skydrol) which we're hoping to get done either tomorrow or Saturday.

I've got Gary Gadberry scheduled to fly with me on Sunday and hopeful I'll get signed off to fly her solo by first of next week.  We have a trip scheduled to the Bahamas for a week on the 17th and we're really wanting to take her instead of the 310.

Here's to hopes and dreams :-)

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #8 on: October 08, 2015, 03:33:31 pm »
Well,

Now I'm being told the fuel bladders aren't even finished yet so trying to go out there tomorrow is completely off and it will be next week before I can go fly my plane.  Very disappointed :-(  And tired of people not being able to do their jobs properly... :-(

Guess I'll be cancelling my plans again and will wait some more.

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Adam Frisch

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #9 on: October 08, 2015, 06:32:40 pm »
Tell me about it. It's the story of my life when it comes to maintenance. Nothing gets done on time. >:(
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #10 on: October 10, 2015, 08:38:43 pm »
Well, the weekend flight home didn't happen nor did the flight tests.  The fuel bladders aren't going to be in until Monday at the earliest and while turning the engines over to try to pump up the hydraulic system the left starter started squealing.  So had to remove it and bring home with me.  We also had a small leak in the nose gear area but turned out to be a line that wasn't properly tightened.

They were also supposed to install the new STC tail cone but were having problems getting it painted without bubbles in the paint.  So another bit of a hold up.

Anyway, there is no chance of me taking the plane to the Bahamas so am now getting the 310 ready to get us there.

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2015, 07:17:39 am »
Starter is on order and hopefully got shipped out yesterday.  The fuel bladders finally got there and I think the shop got them installed yesterday.  So we're down to installing the new starter and getting the gear rigged.  Problem now is I'm gone for the next 2 weeks so will be at least 3 weeks before I can go fly her unless I can squeeze it in somewhere along the line.

Getting excited though,

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2015, 05:44:13 pm »
In true form the starter which was supposed to be shipped out on Tuesday got forgotten and they still didn't get it out.  They promised it would be shipped tomorrow so Andreas has it next week.  Andreas also just sent this picture which is the plane on the ramp about to get the right engine run.  Systems are all done and bladders all installed.  They've begun filling it up and no leaks yet and the skydrol is all still good.  So waiting to hear when they get it running. :-)  getting close.

--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #13 on: October 26, 2015, 05:14:30 pm »
Well,

I've ordered new Rosen Visors (wow do they like those things) and an external gust lock.  The shop is installing a new gasket on the fuel system where it was leaking now and are going to fill it back up and check for leaks again tomorrow morning.  The plan now is to go fly the plane Friday and Saturday and check everything out.  Hope that goes well and then I can bring her home this weekend maybe.
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

donv

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #14 on: October 26, 2015, 09:55:55 pm »
That sounds great! I think the key with any airplane which hasn't flown much over the past few years is to get through all the issues of that initial startup phase. Then they usually become pretty reliable-- if you don't get too frustrated first.