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Author Topic: My Purchase Adventure  (Read 346595 times)

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #30 on: November 03, 2015, 09:38:18 pm »
Well, talked to Andreas today:  Brakes are still leaking and doesn't know why, forward fuel bladders are leaking and don't know why.  He's talking about sending bladders back in for checking but I can't believe both are leaking this badly. 

Sooooo, unknown when I will be flying it.

:-(

Glenn
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You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

donv

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #31 on: November 03, 2015, 11:39:29 pm »
I hate to bring this up, but do you think these guys know what they're doing?

Some of the things you've related make me wonder a bit... do they do a lot of Commander work?

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #32 on: November 04, 2015, 06:56:11 pm »
lol,

well, like all things planes,  you don't really know what they know til you know what they don't.  I doubt I'll be taking my plane back but honestly just want to get it to my hanger so I can start working on her myself.  I think Andreas knows a good bit about the planes and he does pretty good work, I just think that he's taking on more than he can keep up with and things are getting missed. 

I talked to Morris tonight and he's sending one of his guys down to their hanger to double check the fuel cells and make sure they were installed properly. I think that they were as I've already gone up and looked but hopefully they missed something.  I think they installed the wrong o-rings on the calipers though and I hope that is why they are leaking.  Morris seems to agree and is going to get me the correct o-rings to install to make sure that isn't it, but there really isn't much else it could be on that front.

The fuel cells have me the most worried at the moment but hopeful we find the problem soon.  Sucks to spend all that money to re-certify them and have them leak more than when they were sent off.

:-(

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Adam Frisch

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #33 on: November 04, 2015, 07:14:12 pm »
Most things on Commanders are pretty straightforward for a mechanic to deal with, except the fuel bladders. That's one thing best left to someone who's done it multiple times before. It's not an easy job. And to install them so the interconnecting tubes don't leak and they don't have wrinkles anywhere and the parachute cord has them correctly secured etc - is a skilled job.

I hope it's not something serious. If it leaks, they can be patched if you don't fancy buying new bladder.
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #34 on: November 04, 2015, 07:17:30 pm »
Well I've already sent them off and gotten them repaired so that shouldn't be the problem.

--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #35 on: November 09, 2015, 07:43:43 am »
Well, they have reinstalled the bladders and going to fill it up again today to see if they still leak and hopefully be able to tell where they are leaking from.  They are supposed to fill it up slowly and pay more attention this time.  Fingers crossed!

Also, they are going to swap the entire caliper from left to right to see if the left brake starts leaking.  They said they confirmed 450psi on both sides the other day but I'd say if the right one still leaks after this test it has to be a pressure problem.  Not sure which problem I prefer :-)

Will keep everyone up on how it turns out as this is literally the last 2 problems before I can start flying her.

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2015, 02:48:30 pm »
Well, just heard back from the shop and they swapped the 2 calipers and the leak moved to the left side.  So definitely something going on with that particular caliper.  They are ordering new o-rings of a different type to see if that seals it up.

They still have not put the gas in the tanks yet so no word on that.

Glenn
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You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #37 on: November 16, 2015, 09:44:55 am »
Update:

I spent another weekend in TN and while getting a few things done, still don't have a plane.  I've been biting my tongue and finally let loose on them yesterday.  I was told the plane was ready to go and they only needed to replace gaskets in the mags as they got new sealant they wanted to try.  I was expecting this to be done before I got there but as usual it was not.  Not a big deal though, we'd get it done Saturday morning and be flying by afternoon.  Ya, right.

When I arrived the door was off the plane as they were also supposed to put a new seal on it that didn't get done either.  I did this myself and started working on the mags.  I also rigged up an ipad mount in the plane that worked out really nice if anyone is interested.

Upon our first taxi I was having a really hard time keeping the plane straight and commented that it was strange that it was taking so much RPM to even get it to move.  Of course, the laughing and joking started, claiming I was a newbie and didn't know how to taxi a Commander, but after a few minutes it quickly became obvious something else was going on.  Turned out the brakes on both sides were dragging and the right side especially.  This is where my attitude starts to change because they had told me they taxied the airplane already and that everything checked out.

https://youtu.be/HRf9UydC-RE
Video of the initial start and taxi...

The left mag on the right engine was also leaking so badly that it was blowing oil all the way down the side of the plane.  This was going to require further inspection on Sunday and we also had zero RPM.  Sunday I discovered the cannon plug almost completely unscrewed and got it tight again.  This fixed the RPM problem for my second run but then the 3rd run it stopped working again.  One would think a shop seeing such a serious problem would inspect it and get it fixed since the plane can't be flown that way...

I came back to the shop Sunday and worked all day by myself on the plane to get some shims added to the brakes and to replace the gaskets on the left mag.  Upon removing the mag I discover there were 3 paper gaskets, 2 on top of each other, one wasn't over the stud and was instead crumpled up and instead of 2 o-rings like the manual said, they had only 1 larger one which clearly was wrong.  In fact, I had gone in to ask how it worked before I got the manual out because it made no sense to me.

My prop levers are also very stiff and not adjusted properly as they don't go all the way forward.  I haven't been able to run the plane up yet so not sure if they feather properly but will definitely need to test that before I go fly.  Why they told me that I should be able to fly the airplane this weekend I have no idea.

I'm also going to comment here on a few things that I usually try to stay away from but feel you guys should be aware of in the future: 

I purchased a tail cone from Gary in TN that does not fit the airplane.  I'm going to have to bring it home and get someone there to try to beef it up and get it to fit properly, but his mold wasn't made properly and getting my money back doesn't seem an option.  Another purchase that I'm even more upset about is the exhaust deflectors STC Gary has.  I was told by him and Andreas about how awesome these things were and how they made the plane look better and so on.  Turned out Andreas was talking crap as he had never even seen the things before and for $1700 I got what amounted to $20 worth of bent stainless steel.  And when I say bent, 1 is bent at 30 degrees or so and 2 pieces bent at 90.  Literally just 3 2-3" wide metal bent in a simple press and handed to me in a UPS box.  Angle Iron should do it for what you're buying.

Another thing that got to me was Andreas and Gary were both trying to sell me an Air Conditioning unit for the plane with Andreas even telling me that the air unit on my plane never works and I would have to get one eventually.  I ended up backing out of that purchase (thank goodness) and now all I hear are all the horror stories of them trying to install these things and all the problems they have with them because they are never installed with the proper parts.  I finally told Andreas over the  weekend that I was blown away that he was trying to sell me the thing for my plane knowing that they were crap.  Doesn't say much about him taking care of his customers.

Andreas is one of the nicest kids I've met and he is hardworking. His problem is he talks too much crap about stuff he really knows nothing about and he takes on too much work.  Right now he has 2 Commanders (one needing major work) (not mine) and a 421 that needs and annual and about 5 other planes sitting waiting for various things.  He has one other AI that works for him and he can't get to everything that needs to be done.  As a result he's taken a potentially good customer (me) and put me in a state of mind that I will NEVER take my plane and leave it at a shop EVER AGAIN!!

To say I am having a bad experience is an understatement.  To say that I feel taken advantage of by Andreas and Gary would be a massive understatement.  They are both nice people and I don't have any ill will towards either one of them, but I'd be careful and do a LOT of research before buying anything from them.  I hope Andreas gets his shop in order as he is a smart kid, but we're going on 5 months of my plane sitting in his shop to get an annual done and I'm already over $20k in labor and haven't gotten his last bill yet. 

Not happy but still hopeful :-)

Glenn

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You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

EricDapp

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #38 on: November 16, 2015, 12:33:20 pm »
I'm sure others will chime in here but if it was me I wouldn't pay them any more money til things were settled. Do they sound sincere and want the airplane to fly? We're these issues known when they did the pre-buy with you? I'm assuming these aren't Cleveland wheels and brakes. I would be on the lookout for a used set if they aren't. It sounds like your getting close. I think at one time or another we have all been in a situation where it seams as though it will never end. My patience would be up by now too. Good luck and keep us informed.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2015, 12:58:54 pm »
Yes, they are cleveland brakes and yes I think Andreas honestly wants to get the plane done.  In fact I know he does now after the lashing I gave him last night.  The problem is he's got so many other things going on that my plane is not being attended to.  After a while that excuse becomes gas on an open wound. :-)

Thanks,

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Adam Frisch

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #40 on: November 16, 2015, 11:49:36 pm »
I feel for you Glenn. Maintenance is a PITA sometimes and you understand why guys who find a good mechanics hold on to them for dear life! I hope you can get it sorted soon. Maybe ferry it somewhere else?

I have to shift to a new provider soon as I need someone LA local, and the guys that used to do my 520 and Aerostar don't really want to have to go to school to learn an oddball type like the 680V. So, trying find a local guy - I have two I'm vetting now. But neither answer emails, so that's already got my hair standing on end. Good communication solves 99% of the problems. I don't care as long as you inform me you're running late and keep me up to date, but what drive me nuts is silence and then you turn up and nothing's been done.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2015, 11:52:43 pm by Adam Frisch »
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #41 on: November 17, 2015, 07:09:23 am »
I agree.  Andreas here in TN is awesome about answering his phone and talking to you, just the facts you get are a little scattered.  Not sure which is worse :-)   The thing that worries me the most is Morris won't be here forever and what do we do when him and a few others are gone.  It's why I'm working hard to learn my own plane.  I'll never have time to become an A&P but at least if I know how things are supposed to work I can point them to the problem.  No one will know your plane better than you if you spend time with a wrench and get involved.  It's just very hard when your plane is somewhere else.

The good news is Morris walked me through how to fix a few of the issues and said the lack of proper o-rings is what is causing that mag to leak.  I'm on a hunt now to find them and he gave me a few places to look this morning.  Just waiting on them to open so I can call.  He also told me how to adjust the prop controls properly and the relieve a bit of pressure on the brakes to see if we can get them to relax a bit.

As soon as I get the parts I need I'll be traveling back up to put them on and hopefully fly her back.  I'm thinking of taking a mechanic with me so we can just knock everything out and get home.  What a PITA!

Glenn
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You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Stephen Matusick

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #42 on: November 17, 2015, 12:22:24 pm »
Glenn, every time you update this, I keep hoping for a good resolution. I think after you get it sorted, she'll be wonderful and you'll have a ton of knowledge to help keep her that way. We should keep a list of the good A&Ps for the planes somewhere out there for everyone to use as a resource to keep the fleet flying.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #43 on: November 17, 2015, 02:15:22 pm »
I'm not a quitter so she'll eventually get where she needs to be. I agree it would be nice to get a list of A&P's but the problem there is like with everything else.  People and their opinions :-)  I think I'm just going to stick with my plan and become the best I can become at working on my own plane.

Keep watching the posts though as I'm getting close to letting her breath fresh air again. :-)

Glenn
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You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

ghancock

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Re: My Purchase Adventure
« Reply #44 on: November 21, 2015, 10:45:56 pm »
Well, we're almost on the same track as last weekend but Morris to the rescue.

We got here last night and decided to work as long as we could redoing the mags, replacing the tach generator, which required removing the starter and adjusting the brakes per Morris's instruction. 

This morning when we arrived we pushed the plane out to try to taxi it around the airport and couldn't get the engines to start.  Eventually the left one started but was turning backwards when it was starting which I figured was due to the mags being set wrong.  I ran it for a few minutes but opted to shut it down because it just didn't feel right and the right engine especially was not running good.

At this point the shop hasn't helped me or even touched my plane in 2 weeks.  They've been working on another plane mostly and a few others but haven't bothered to touch mine.  As it turned out it was probably a good thing. 

After getting Andreas to come redo the mags himself to see if I was doing something wrong and determining the plane still ran like crap I decided something else must be wrong.  Andreas pulled the mags and took them apart to see if anything inside was bad but didn't find anything.  We then got another mechanic to come in and take a peak and started looking at the fact that the gear case markings that Andreas had told me indicated top dead center didn't actually line up with the piston when it was TDC.   

I decided again it was time for Morris who said we were doing everything all wrong.  The shop closed up but they let us hang around and continue working ( I brought a friend from 7 lakes with me for extra hands since last weekend I had to work solo all weekend ).  We removed all 4 mags and I set them per Morris's instruction.  We were hopefully not too cocky by putting everyting back together as if we were going to go fly tomorrow :-) because we did.

If everything works out and the engines run good then the only other thing at the moment is we have a skydrol leak in the back.  But I already know what has happened because I found another o-ring that wasn't properly installed a few months ago.  The downside is it will require draining the entire system in order to replace it so I'm not real happy about it.

I feel sorry for Andreas because he really does work hard, but he's really messed me up on my plane and has left me not feeling very well at all with the work they've done.  I second guess almost everything he tells me now and I'm sure he's ready for me to be gone.

I'm hoping I can post some videos tomorrow night of me flying my baby home to 7 Lakes.  Keeping my fingers crossed, in the mean time I'm going to bed to get some sleep.

My 4 year old son has been with me all weekend and continues to blow my mind at how awesome he is.  He spent the entire night last night at the airport and all day today.  He hasn't complained the first time and everyone seems to really enjoy having him around.

Here's to finally getting my bird back to its new home.

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.