1000's

[JMA]

Bruce seems like a high number of 1000's currently for sale, any reason for this that you know of?

[donv]

I'll be interested to hear what Bruce has to say. I watch controller.com, and it shows 9 (but that includes a duplicate listing-- same airplane listed by both Bruce and Eagle Creek). So 8, in reality.

Of those, most of them have been on the market for a long time (the really low time G1000 airplane has been on the market for years!)... the only recent addition I've noticed is this one:

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/20036145/1983-commander-1000

It seems like 4-8 on controller.com at a time is reasonable, so it's at the high end of the range.

I would also point out that of the controller.com airplanes, one is in Australia and two are in South America, so for a US buyer you're really talking about 5 airplanes.

[SKYFLYER]

The one you referenced Don is the same Australian that has been on for several months.. I think there are only 7 and one of the South American (Ecuador) is currently in Florida at Naples Jet Center making it 5 in the US. So the one in Brazil and the one in Australia are the only two not currently in the US. About the same as any other time that I can remember.

[Bruce Byerly]

I agree with what's been said - there's some redundant advertising, unnecessary and probably unauthorized in same cases, but it's out there.  There's also some issues with the planes in the eyes of buyers. Overpriced, needing work, higher time engines, or A combination thereof. I demo'd one of the planes recently and the buyer was over it before we got off the ground due to issues that should have probably been fixed before the flight. Buyer bought 840 instead as he didn't think the 1000 was worth another $400k - I agreed with him given his mission. Meggitt and Garmin panel planes also seem to bring some hesitation.  I don't think the facts support the concerns in most cases, but at the end of the day, there are some good choices and the market is a bit slow just like many, if not most, markets.  Owners love their 1000's! The fact there are 3, or maybe 4, domestic planes available is not out of line. I do know 695AB is a great airplane. $1,350,000 is the asking price.  It's in Texas and ready to fly if you're ready!

[donv]

I would probably hesitate myself about a Meggitt panel airplane, unfortunately.

But what's the issue with the Garmin panels? Are you talking about the G950 specifically?

[JMA]

Thanks for the info Bruce, like you Don- Controller is my barometer.
N51DM seems like the crown jewel (low time/G1000), she's a beaut.

Rarely see a true 980 on there... they always have N940AC listed as a 695 for some reason.

[donv]

I would think there would be a market for new 1000s, if they could keep the price down to $4 million or less.  A G950-equipped 1000 would be a strong competitor to both the PC-12 and the Mustang/Phenom 100. The 695B is such a capable airplane, and there are so few of them that there isn't much competition from the used market.

What they really need is to get a special mission contract for a few airframes.

[Jeff Johnson]

Not that it's the same...

But I was thinking about a composite 500s with the lycoming i.e. Motors 350hp, wet wing, all composite.

And if it's 1 million... ok 1.5 million.  What a great capable aircraft...

Right?

[Adam Frisch]

The Brazilian 1000's wants $1.6Million, which is just a pie in the sky number. Might as well ask for $5 million. Sellers need to get realistic. If N51DM can't sell for $1.3m, with everything new and ridiculously low time on airframe, then it's a pipe dream to think anything else will. These ar $1M planes, give or take up and down a bit. They're not $1.6M planes, no matter what condition.

[donv]

I think the Brazilian price has something to do with import taxes into Brazil. So for a Brazilian buyer to buy a 1000 from the US, they would have to pay some absurd tax (like 60%, so a $1 million 1000 bought in the US would cost a Brazilian buyer $1.6 million).

I'm really surprised that N51DM is only asking $1.3-- I would have guessed more like $1.6-1.9, since Bruce is asking $1.3 for a decent but not spectacular 1000 as well, with Meggitt avionics. However, the paint and interior on N51DM hurt it, in my opinion-- it's nice, but just too idiosyncratic. If I were to buy it (and I'm not in the market), I would have to budget to redo the paint and interior, and I suspect a lot of buyers would feel the same way.

[donv]

I don't think I'd bother with composite, but even so that would be a great airplane. The market just isn't there for piston twins, though.

Cessna even had a customer for something like 50 402s and they refused to restart production.

At the end of the day, a 690 does so much more and just isn't that much more expensive, either to buy or operate, that I think it kind of killed the Shrike even in the late 1970s, let alone today. And a Shrike would probably be well over $2 million today, maybe more.

A Shrike with a pair of 500shp 331s (or the little Allisons) and a pressurized cabin would be a wonderful companion to a new 1000, though!

Not that it's the same...

But I was thinking about a composite 500s with the lycoming i.e. Motors 350hp, wet wing, all composite.

And if it's 1 million... ok 1.5 million.  What a great capable aircraft...

Right?

[Jeff Johnson]

Donv
Come on!!
No support for piston twins?
A small 331 powered shrike would be awesome.
But realistically 3-5 mill.  And what would be gained?
This is why I think a piston powered "new" aero commander would fit the right niche. 

Who wants to own a HP single that can only hold 2 maybe 3 people at full fuel. 

[donv]

I just don't see it. The Shrike would be much more expensive than a Baron or Seneca (just like in the 1970s), basically competing against a Piper M500... and the M500 is turbine, pressurized, and much faster. I'm not really sure who even buys new Senecas today... I can sort of see the Bonanza buyer wanting to step up to a Baron, and that might account for a few sales, but the Seneca has always been more of a utilitarian workhorse.

A little turboprop Shrike (call it a 680S) would compete against the Piper M600 on the low end and the TBM950 on the high end. Basically, it would give you the low operating costs and performance of those airplanes with twin engine safety. The cabin size is about the same.

[donv]

Since we're fantasizing anyway, the fun idea would be to see if Honeywell would reduce the thermodynamic rating on the Dash 10 to something like 800 horsepower (500 for takeoff), and give you a 7000 or even 8000 hour TBO, with an intermediate hot section.

Then, you could legitimately claim that the engine reserves for BOTH 331s would be less than the single PT6 in the M600 or TBM.

[donv]

The ad almost writes itself... on one page, a picture of that Meridian bobbing in the ocean down by the Bahamas with the caption "Sure, it doesn't happen often... but why take the chance?"

On the facing page, a head-on picture of the Commander with the headline "The New Commander 680S-- Two for the price of one!" and a description of how great it is.