Aerostar?

[Adam Frisch]

Whatcha getting, Budda?

[Jeff Johnson]

Adam

Good morning!

Well isn?t that the question of the morning. 

I had a beautiful 81 600a with g500 750 and great paint great interior.  With 600 hr on the engines all but wrapped up and ready to take away....  then the owner pulled out of the deal.  I was heartbroken 😔.  Only 3 left in the fleet and I?ve lost 2 in the deal process. 

So now I?m expanding my search looking at 602p and converted 700 machines.  My wife would love a 1980 or newer airplane for some reason and they are Way more complex, way more that can go wrong.  And going through all the systems and making sure what I?m buying isn?t going to crap out on the way home is making this a really difficult purchase.  But there are a few out there and they all seem relatively well equipped and priced right.
None are perfectly what I wanted because they aren?t the 600a but oh well I?m going pressurized!
My wish list is pretty simple on the outside
KFC 200 autopilot
1980 or newer.
No damage history
Known ice
Low time engines
Or run outs for the right price
And ok... not stock avionics.
Paint and interior are bonus but they don?t have to be new.
And then because the market is so flooded with Aerostars...  who?s going to give me the best deal!
I would actually prefer a non 700hp version because of fuel burn but I understand if I run it 55% it?s pretty economical.  Well relatively speaking
So that just about covers my Aerostar discovery
2 have gotten away
But the search continues. 
I did seriously consider n250s but paint and interior were a huge drawback for me and my wife.  You should check it out
Now I?m looking at n700LM and it looks promising as well as n989ck. Which is a bit old but nice and price is good

I?ll let you guys know soon
Jeff Johnson

[donv]

As I said before, if you're going with a pressurized Aerostar, a 690 won't be that much more expensive, and it will be much more pleasant and safe.

[donv]

I  honestly don't know how you could consider a pressurized Aerostar when you could have this:

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/21974535/1978-commander-690b

for $299,000. Possibly less.

You'd have 900 hours of flying, and when you're done with that, you could probably sell it for at least $250k. That's going to be cheaper than buying an Aerostar and flying it for 900 hours...

[Roy]

Classified as a "Newbie" but felt I had to comment...

Great thread...

Looking at the history of this thread:
- Never had privilege to fly the Aerostar specimen, so can't comment first-hand.
- Flew plenty of hours (50-60) in mostly 500A's (one was Colemill 300hp), some 500B's, and a handful of hours in a 680F. One 'thrill ride" in a 681 Century conversion, that absolutely impressed me with it's performance (back in 1987 era mind you). 
- Flew a Duke for 20-25 hours, they eat runway, poor SE performance, are temperamental, 2900RPM historically makes them not make TBO unless you're good on the throttles, need to be way ahead of the plane when up in the FL's.
- Yes, Don's wealth of knowledge is great for the audience. Met him only once in person, hundreds of reads on these threads, hope to use his wisdom when I have opportunity to be a buyer not a renter.
- Glenn (9/19/17): Totally agree; the move around space and hauling capability in a Commander is second to none in this regime of GA aircraft. Second to none.
- Glenn (9/19/17): "you can get a 690A for about the same price as an Aerostar" - yeah, you're right, but Don has a point about TBO's vs. Hots, residual value after running it. - Always fun "to spend other peoples' money" in these discussions  but I do hear his argument.
- Jeff (10/1/17): remember the distance flown in a 690A vs. Aerostar hour to hour is significant. Comment re: latest post from Don about a 690 with ~900 hours if time left (then sell it for near purchase price or re-engine solutions you mention). That's a lot of real estate covered in 900 hours. Not sure your usage model, but 100 hours/year is 9 years of flying...
- Re: Adam (10/1/17): flying "off the beaten path" can be significant. ~$7.50/gallon for 100LL at KSDL from Signature is a flat-out rip-off.
- Jeff (12/18/17): Wife said get a HLOC to purchase the bird? Sounds like an invitation. Get her in a turbine Commander and I bet the deal would be done 
- Not speaking from personal experience, but transition from 500S to 690x I bet isn't that bad based on what I saw in the 681 ride I took. Heck, I went from a 310 to 500a's with almost very minimal guidance, other than learning the steering system (back in the days of 1987).
-  Again speaking to Don's latest comment, he has a very valid point. 900 hours covers a lot of real estate as compared to the Aerostar. I'm not the expert on the cost of turbine (or piston engine) overhauls, but Don's feedback should be regarded as very high value from personal experience.

Again, fun to spend other peoples' money while I dream to get out of the rental scene.

Roy

[JimC]

I  honestly don't know how you could consider a pressurized Aerostar when you could have this:

https://www.controller.com/listings/aircraft/for-sale/21974535/1978-commander-690b

for $299,000. Possibly less.

You'd have 900 hours of flying, and when you're done with that, you could probably sell it for at least $250k. That's going to be cheaper than buying an Aerostar and flying it for 900 hours...

900 hrs for me is about 4 years - for others, even more. I honestly doubt you'd get $250k in 4 years; the market will continue to decline.

HOWEVER..

Do the math - if you THROW IT AWAY after 900 hours, and Jet-A averages you $4/gallon, you're only looking at $600-650/hr. Throw in some gear & prop maintenance, and you're at $700-750/hr. That's just a hair above what I pay to go slower and not as far while carrying less.

I was thinking about it when I could get into a 690A/B for $400k. Now at $300k, it's really, really tempting.

[Adam Frisch]

Also, often forgotten, oil changes on a piston twin will amount to about the same as the hot section costs, just about. Every 50hr on the Aerostar it was $500. That's $18K over it's 1800hr TBO. Not insignificant.

[donv]

That's a great point about oil changes-- something I forgot about.

[Jeff Johnson]

Guys!

All good points and all this information has my head spinning. 

I?m looking at 150-175k spending money.  Not 300k

And it?s got to be newer than 1980.  As much as I?d love to get into a turbine.  As much as I?d love to spend 300-400k it?s not practical nor is it even within reason. 

The Aerostar market is ripe for the picking and its well within my reach today. 

Now when I?m done with the Aerostar and ready to move into the turbine.  I do hope prices will be better.  On the turbine.  But I doubt it.  But right now in my current situation.  I?d rather pay cash instead of HELOC.  And own my plane.  I set my budget and I?m going to stick with it.

Also remember that the Aerostar runs 40-45 gallons an hour.  @75 Cruise. 
I can slow it down and run 35 hour @ 55 Cruise still flying along at 215kts.
That?s really economical!!

Whatever... I?m preaching to the choir here...
Happy flying

[JimC]

There is no better money to spend on the next plane than someone else's.

[Jeff Johnson]

Boy your not kidding!!

[Roy]

Points well made Jeff.

Yes, fun to sit on the fringe and spend other peoples' money 

[Jeff Johnson]

Roy Thanks!

Im just happy to be buying a plane and getting to Fly. 

But a fun discussion none the less. 

[donv]

What is the difference between the $150-175k Aerostars and the $300k+ ones that I see advertised?

I assume a big part of it is avionics, but what are the other factors?

[Jeff Johnson]

Don,

What I have found is the serious sellers price the plane accordingly. 

As you know, once you get into the 250-300k price point you are venturing into the low end turbine market.  And those planes are not selling. 

If someone wants their 700 Aerostar to sell.  It?s 200k and under. 

Here?s the other problem.  Most of the Aerostar fleet that?s fo sale has been sitting.  But the owners have put so much into them and babied them that they want top dollar for the plane. 

But as we all know.  A plane that sits, is not a desirable plane.  So it becomes a viscous circle. 

I?m not an expert, nor a guru.  But I know good when I see it and I know shit from a distance.  And quite a few of the Aerostars for sale are poop.

So in short asking too much..
Thinking there plane is perfect...
Or it?s been sitting and sucks....
because deferred maintenance on an Aerostar is almost in my opinion a lost plane... scrap it...

And the planes with great electronics also fall in line with the above issues. 

Lip stick on a pig 🐷

I?m a frustrated non plane owner.  Looking for a good plane🧐.