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Author Topic: New 980 owner  (Read 88411 times)

Steve binnette

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New 980 owner
« on: November 01, 2015, 12:08:01 am »
I just recently moved to a 980 from a 421.  Any help or advice would be much appreciated.

The plane is currently getting painted and should be flyable soon.  I bought it out of a bankruptcy and it had sat for a while. Good news is it had low TT 4900 the enviro system along with long range fuel and a g600.

It was a photo airplane and had no interior. 

It is getting complete refurbishment and paint is the final step.  I hope to have it back in California next month.

donv

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2015, 01:30:19 am »
Steve--

Welcome! I have a 980 as well, since 2011, and I've been around Commanders since the early 1980s.

I love my 980-- the biggest advantage the 980 has over the 1000 (well, after the picture window) is the fact that, compared to the 1000s I used to fly, it weighs about 700 pounds less. That's not insignificant.

Please feel free to fire away with any questions you might have! This is a great group, and Twin Commander also can provide great support.

ghancock

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2015, 06:40:57 am »
Welcome to the group.  I was actually in the market for a 421 when I ran across my Commander 680.  I hope to one day upgrade to a 980 or some other variant but at the moment I'm extremely excited about my purchase.  It's been in the shop for 4 months and hoping to be flying it in the next few weeks.

Again, happy to have you over.  Were you a member of the Twin Cessna forum?  Did you go to the Twin Cessna Convention in Colorado this year?

Glenn
--glenn
You can't win an argument with an ignorant person,  they'll just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Adam Frisch

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2015, 09:35:45 am »
Welcome Steve! We have to meet up when you get your bird back to CA. I'm in LA, but would love to come see wherever you are. Hopefully my old 680V will be ready by then.

As a side - what's the main difference between the 840 and 980 models?
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

Steve binnette

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2015, 11:50:57 am »
Steve--

Welcome! I have a 980 as well, since 2011, and I've been around Commanders since the early 1980s.

I love my 980-- the biggest advantage the 980 has over the 1000 (well, after the picture window) is the fact that, compared to the 1000s I used to fly, it weighs about 700 pounds less. That's not insignificant.

Please feel free to fire away with any questions you might have! This is a great group, and Twin Commander also can provide great support.

I saw you had a 980 commander, where are you located?  I will have a bunch or questions going forward.  It would be great to get information from a follow operator.

I test flew a 1000 and there is not much to dislike. It was only a 1.5 hour flight and the performance was great but when i went back into the cabin I really missed the window and couch, the big cargo area in the 980 was another benefit..

Never considered the additional weight but it makes sense considering the thicker skin,  floor modification and additional interior parts. Not sure what other differences there are.

Its interesting that you could feel the difference in the handling.  One of the big attraction of the commanders are the very pleasant handling qualities.


Steve binnette

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2015, 12:03:50 pm »
Welcome to the group.  I was actually in the market for a 421 when I ran across my Commander 680.  I hope to one day upgrade to a 980 or some other variant but at the moment I'm extremely excited about my purchase.  It's been in the shop for 4 months and hoping to be flying it in the next few weeks.

Again, happy to have you over.  Were you a member of the Twin Cessna forum?  Did you go to the Twin Cessna Convention in Colorado this year?

Glenn

I have some time flying 680s years ago.  I have very fond memories of the IGSO540 its a great engine, not that much different than the 421s GTSIO 520 engine.  Spin the engine faster and you get more HP.  Works great!  More power less noise.  I also spent some time with 680s that had the IO720s.  Was not impressed with that setup.  The only good thing was a lower fuel burn.

I never understood the reluctance to operate a geared engine.  There are many benefits.  TPs are all geared, nobody worries about them

One of the reasons I choose the commanders is the time I spent flying 680s years ago.  You will just love yours, awesome airplanes!

I was a member of the twin cessna group but not active,

Steve binnette

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2015, 12:13:12 pm »
Welcome Steve! We have to meet up when you get your bird back to CA. I'm in LA, but would love to come see wherever you are. Hopefully my old 680V will be ready by then.

As a side - what's the main difference between the 840 and 980 models?

Adam I base out of Camarillo and live in Malibu.  Would love to hook up someday soon.

The 840 and 980 are identical except for the engines.  Initially the 840 had the -5 with 717hp, the 980 with -10 had 733hp.

If you upgrade the 840 to -10 you still have to maintain 717hp.  The slight difference in performance is at TO and the lower altitudes, at cruise it wont matter. Thats my understanding of it.

donv

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2015, 12:16:13 pm »
I'm based in Hillsboro, Oregon.

It's not the handling that makes a difference between the 980 and the 1000, it's the performance. In theory, the 1000 can go faster (due to a higher mach limit), but in reality my 980 goes faster than any 1000 I've flown, for a given payload. Also, like you said, I prefer the windows and the interior layout on the 980.

You mentioned your 980 was used for photo work-- did it have a camera door? If so, are you keeping it?

Adam Frisch

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2015, 12:50:52 pm »
Great Steve! So you're very close, I'm in Hollywood and normally based at El Monte, but I'm thinking of switching to Burbank. Let me know when you get your bird back and I'd love to come have a look.
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

Steve binnette

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2015, 01:22:50 pm »

You can't tell it was a photo plane.

 The installation is really nice, no big square thing on bottom.  There is a big round glass port but the door closes flush.  I had the door secured shut and had a plate made for the interior gap in the floor.

The only noticeable thing is the emergency exit has optically perfect glass for photos and it has a little extra trim around it you can see from exterior.  If you examine my plane next to another commander you can see an extra seam on right side.  It would take someone very familiar with the type to notice it.

Since it was such a nice install I wanted to keep it.  The cost of the mod was 250k and it can now be used again if the next owner needs it.

Steve binnette

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2015, 01:23:54 pm »
Adam I will let you know when I get it back in the hangar.  It's time!

donv

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2015, 01:34:01 pm »
Steve-- that sounds great! Did that result in an increase in the empty weight to account for the extra structure?

I'm sure that keeping it will add value some day when you go to sell it. Commanders are very popular platforms for this sort of thing, and those mods are expensive-- if you can even do them at all.

It's funny you mentioned Camarillo-- my 980 was based there for a number of years before I bought it.

donv

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2015, 01:49:12 pm »
The other thing about 840 vs 980: it's true that the performance of a -10 840 is basically identical to that of a 980. However, operationally, the 980 has two advantages, both related to the engine computers. First of all, in the -10 conversion (690 or 840), you have to manually run the fuel enrich during start. The 980 starts just like a -5-- turn the knob, and monitor the start, that's it.

Secondly, and probably more important, on a -10 conversion, the pilot needs to calculate what the EGT limit is for the current conditions at cruise. This requires consulting a table, and setting a little marker on the EGT gauge. On the 980 (and 1000), the single red line computer does this for you, so all you have to do is keep it below the red line on the gauge.

The SRL does add a bit of complexity, and if it fails or is inadvertently turned off, you need to be very careful to avoid over-temping the engine, but that generally doesn't seem to be a common issue. I've yet to have one fail in many years of flying 980s and 1000s.

The difference between a -5 840 and a 980 is significant. The cruise difference is big, and even bigger is the fact that, basically, you are never temperature limited on takeoff in a 980. You always have the full 730hp no matter what. So hot and high takeoffs in the 980 are a non-issue.

Adam Frisch

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2015, 02:43:56 pm »
I've always dreamt of finally ending up in a 1000, because I like the idea of 6.7psi cabin and RSVM. However, I do like the bigger windows and large baggage compartment of the 840/980 models. And now that I hear they had to beef up the structure on those models, adding weight and reducing useful load, I'm thinking a 980 is probably where I should end up rather.

I saw one for sale in Japan recently, also with a photo interior and a belly port. Priced attractively. It had run out -10's and I did consider it for about two seconds, until I checked how much it would cost to do the O/H's. Nah, better to wait until I can afford one with good times left.
Slumming it in the turboprop world - so you don't have to.

donv

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Re: New 980 owner
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2015, 03:58:02 pm »
1000 has a heavier empty weight, but an even higher gross weight-- 11,200 pounds versus 10,325. So in effect, the 1000 has a greater useful load. 1000B is 11,750 gross, so even better.

Since the 1000 has a bit more power down low, it works out about the same, but up high they all have the same power, and that's where the weight difference shows up.