TPE331 turbine stages cost

[Adam Frisch]

Hi.

Does anyone have any recent numbers for what the turbine stage wheels would cost? I seem to recall it's about $20K for 1st stage, $14K for 2nd stage and $7K for 3rd stage, but these are old numbers just from memory.

Also, how much are the stators between each stage?

[donv]

I'll be interested in what you find out!

One of my wheels has to be replaced within 11,000 cycles (ha!) or next time the engine is opened (much sooner!), due to an AD.

[SKYFLYER]

Don is this the AD your talking about?

The FAA amends ? 39.13 by removing Amendment 39-15996 (74 FR 41327, August 17, 2009) and by adding a new airworthiness directive to read as follows:
Honeywell International Inc. (formerly AlliedSignal Inc., Garrett Engine Division; Garrett Turbine Engine Company; and AiResearch Manufacturing Company of Arizona): Docket No. FAA-2009-0555; Directorate Identifier 2009-NE-18-AD.

For turbine disks that have a S/N listed in Table 1 of this proposed AD with 4,100 or fewer cycles-since-new (CSN) on the effective date of this proposed AD, performing an initial FPI and ECI within 4,500 CSN or at the next access, whichever occurs first.
For turbine disks that have a S/N listed in Table 1 of this proposed AD with more than 4,100 CSN on the effective date of this proposed AD, performing an initial FPI and ECI within 400 CIS after the effective date of this proposed AD or at the next access, whichever occurs first.
Thereafter, for turbine disks that have a S/N listed in Table 1 of this proposed AD, perform a repetitive FPI and ECI at each scheduled hot section inspection, but not to exceed 3,600 hours-since-last inspection.

I am not aware of any other AD's on the -10 currently.

[Bruce Byerly]

Hi.

Does anyone have any recent numbers for what the turbine stage wheels would cost? I seem to recall it's about $20K for 1st stage, $14K for 2nd stage and $7K for 3rd stage, but these are old numbers just from memory.

Also, how much are the stators between each stage?

What are you trying to figure out? How much your hot is going to cost?  There are a ton of different configurations.  A -10 has 36 individual blades on the first wheel.  They are over $1,000 each. Not including the disk. Just for example.  Of course they last a long, long time so they are still relatively inexpensive in the turbine world.

If you have rough hots on an old -1 or something like that, a $150k bill wouldn?t surprise me.

[donv]

Skyflyer, that sounds right. I just know it's in my status sheet-- I'd have to go look at the status sheet or the logs to know for sure.

[Adam Frisch]

No, I have estimates for my hots.

Just want some information on this thread for posterity and future use for other users. We need to keep this site useful and informative and not shrouded in the usual aviation secrecy.

One of the things that drive me crazy in aviation is the obfuscation of costs. You basically can't get a straight answer on what anything costs without a lot of BS. It's like when you ask what a PT6 costs to overhaul and the owners are either so sell shocked they just can't bring themselves to mention it (because they've been taken to the cleaners), or the price just isn't calculable because it's such a goat rodeo. You hear anywhere between $250-500K. I mean, how can there be such a spread? Only in aviation do these things happen, nowhere else.

At least the TPE stuff you know is around $250K to overhaul. It might vary a bit from shop to shop when you call, but it's in the ballpark. For PT6's it seems like literally anything goes.

Sorry for rant.

[Steve binnette]

I agree.  When I heard on BT of the $7k HSI on pt-6 I was skeptical.

[Bruce Byerly]

No, I have estimates for my hots.

Just want some information on this thread for posterity and future use for other users. We need to keep this site useful and informative and not shrouded in the usual aviation secrecy.

One of the things that drive me crazy in aviation is the obfuscation of costs. You basically can't get a straight answer on what anything costs without a lot of BS. It's like when you ask what a PT6 costs to overhaul and the owners are either so sell shocked they just can't bring themselves to mention it (because they've been taken to the cleaners), or the price just isn't calculable because it's such a goat rodeo. You hear anywhere between $250-500K. I mean, how can there be such a spread? Only in aviation do these things happen, nowhere else.

At least the TPE stuff you know is around $250K to overhaul. It might vary a bit from shop to shop when you call, but it's in the ballpark. For PT6's it seems like literally anything goes.

Sorry for rant.

I understand the frustration but I?m not sure why you would be surprised Adam.  There is a HUGE spread often even for two engines on the same plane.  The trouble is, until you get in there, you have little idea if it?s going to be clean or if some crappy nozzle or abuse took out the whole hot section. The hot section inspection itself is under 40 labor hours.  The rest is putting humpty dumpty back together again.  That could be $10,000 or 20x that cost if it?s all junk.  Almost 50 years of development means a wide disparity in SB compliance costs as well.  You want the new, improved combustion liner for more power and better wheel life?; that?ll be $25k or so.  You may not be forced to do a particular  upgrade legally.  It might just be a good idea.

I would suggest that just because one engine shop reportedly did a hot for $25k and a second shop did a hot for $125k, it does not mean that the second shop is gouging.

On Pratt?s, we hire a third party to double check costs.  But the bulk of the savings is typically sourcing used, serviceable parts and thereby kicking the can down the road to the next owner. Sure you get what you shop for, but it?s commonly pay less, get less.  Or, pay me now or pay me later ...

[Jeff Johnson]

To all,

And this is why my pocket book is not big enough for a turbine.  Especially a twin Turbine.

I love to fly, but I love to be secure in my finances as well. 

My wife would kill me if I came home with a 125k hot section bill after inspection. 

Adam you've stepped up to the big boys on this adventure!

But they are the coolest planes out there!  For sure.

[Bruce Byerly]

To all,

And this is why my pocket book is not big enough for a turbine.  Especially a twin Turbine.

I love to fly, but I love to be secure in my finances as well. 

My wife would kill me if I came home with a 125k hot section bill after inspection. 

Adam you've stepped up to the big boys on this adventure!

But they are the coolest planes out there!  For sure.

Whatever you do, don?t give her a ride in one. I made that mistake many years ago and never expect to hear her stop asking ?when are we getting a 690.?   

[Jeff Johnson]

No kidding!

Well my deal fell through.  Of course I was going to pay full price and the seller backs out. 

He really didn't want to sell.

But wow...

Off I go onto the next one

Soon Bruce Ill be knocking on your door and ready to go.  125k for a hot though.....

[donv]

Yes, but by the time you get to one hot section on a -10 690, you'll have done two overhauls on the Aerostar! And probably some cylinders and other fiddling around as well.

Engine reserves on a -10 690 are going to be the same or less than on an Aerostar.

If you want to feel better about the Aerostar purchase, tell yourself that it burns less fuel per hour... although that fuel is more expensive per gallon and you are going slower... but still.

[donv]

The other question you need to ask yourself is, how many hours are you really going to put on an airplane per year? 100? 200? 300?

If you're in the 100-200 range, 1000 hours will last you a long time. And that's just if you got a mid-time airplane. Once you get close to overhaul or hot section, you can decide whether to invest the money in the overhauls, get used engines, or sell the airplane and get something else.

[Jeff Johnson]

Don,

Your hammering it home for sure.

But to get into a good midtime engine 690 300k plus.  But I?d say 400-500k

To get into a good Aerostar 600 or 601p very low time engines 100-165k.  If we?re talking about a 700 then the price hits 200-300k.

I?m just not ready for that initial purchase price. 

As for rebuilds the TBO on the non turbo is 2000hrs.  And those engines are bulletproof.

I will fly probably 75-100 a year realistically.  Last year I flew 156 but that was with IFR training. 

So there.  It?s just out of my budget.

But I appreciate the thoughts

[Jeff Johnson]

Don,

And I don't know if you have checked lately...
But the fuel price difference is disappearing.  And in some places JetA is more expensive than 100LL

This was just from a quick scan of airports around Oregon and not anything scientific. 
We must be getting ready to goto war or something if JetA is getting more expensive the 100LL