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Author Topic: 980 Questions  (Read 38028 times)

JMA

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #195 on: May 06, 2022, 01:32:45 pm »
Great info, thanks everyone.

New topic,
Rockwell creates the 690 with -5's.  Then they develop the -10 (assuming Gulfstream owns the line at this time) and load them on the 695/980.  Was the 695A/B, 1000 created just to stretch out the fuselage (leg room) and add rear back seat/potty?
I guess my question is what was the thinking at the time of creation?   Or are the gross weight, etc improvements that much better?

donv

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #196 on: May 06, 2022, 11:10:53 pm »
As I understand it, what happened was that the 690A was clearly a home run-- and I think the top-selling turboprop for a few years in the 1970s. Once they had that, they went out and surveyed the customer base about what they did and did not like.

Then, like any smart company, they put together a product road map. The first step was to redesign the wing to eliminate the fuel bladders, and also the corrosion problems which were starting to rear their heads. They also went with a new technology, light weight air cycle machine, which both reduced the empty weight (as did the wet wing), and increased greatly the baggage space. A customer complaint was useful load with full fuel, so they improved that. Step one.

Step two was adding the -10 engines, which gave a big boost in performance. These airplanes became the 840 and 980.

The next big thing that Commander customers complained about was the pressurization, especially since the -10 engines gave them the performance to operate in the 30s. So step 3 in the product road map, now that they had redesigned the wing, was to redesign the fuselage so that it could accommodate higher pressurization differentials, and while they were at it, increased the cabin height and lowered the noise levels. They were also able to take back some of that large baggage space and make an enclosed bathroom, another customer request.

The combination of the redesigned wing and the redesigned fuselage was the 1000. In the recession of the early 1980s, there was demand for a cheaper version of the 1000, which was easily created by putting -5s on the 1000 airframe and creating the 900.

The last step in the product roadmap was an airplane which could cruise faster in the mid-30s, ideally around 320-330 knots, to at least keep up with the latest competition, the Cheyenne 400LS. This airplane would also have higher weights, to give it better range with more passengers, and a higher landing weight.

This was going to be the 1200, but the -12 engines it relied on were never able to deliver the power necessary, and it's not clear that even with the power they would have delivered the speed to keep up with the 400LS. However, Commander was able to complete the engineering on the weight increases, and this resulted in the 695B (or 1000B as it is sometimes called). This was the ultimate Commander, and according to a presentation I saw, checked all the boxes of the 1200 except for cruise speed.

JMA

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #197 on: May 09, 2022, 01:21:41 pm »
Always insightful, thank you.

One question from your post, I thought all 840's were -5's from the factory?

donv

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #198 on: May 09, 2022, 01:26:48 pm »
Yes, all 840s (and 900s) were -5 from the factory. Sorry I wasn't clear about that. The 840 had the redesigned wing and environmental system, but still had -5s.

JMA

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #199 on: May 10, 2022, 11:19:36 am »
No apology necessary I appreciate you always taking the time to answer my questions with great insight.
Would love to see a picture of a bunch of commanders sitting in a field during the recession period.

JMA

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #200 on: July 22, 2022, 03:09:06 pm »
So...  love the S. American mysteries.

https://subastasmx.info/subasta.php?subasta=598&lote=1006

CN 9500, yet in database 9500 is XC-UJW.

Funny the pics are even suspect.  Look at the ident plate by the tail, that is not factory.
Amazing how shady things get when planes head south.

donv

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #201 on: July 22, 2022, 03:46:02 pm »
I wouldn't be surprised if the registration number has changed since that database was updated. I don't know if there is a way to search Mexican registry?

In any event, looks like a way better airplane than most Mexican Commanders!

donv

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #202 on: July 22, 2022, 03:50:43 pm »
Actually, I bet it is 95000. Bruce would probably now.

Asking price seems a bit high, unless that is in pesos!

JMA

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #203 on: July 29, 2022, 11:34:42 am »
Appreciate you always following up DonV.
Wondering, it seems 695GG (Golden Giant) seems under new ownership?  I only ask because I read awhile back it was Gene Good's 1000's.  Seemed like a long standing commander owner.   

JMA

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #204 on: August 11, 2022, 01:52:54 pm »
Odd question, surely DonV will have insight :)

If you look at the Construction list for 980's 95000-95084, a good number end up in HK or YV (columbia/venezuela) tail numbers... are they confiscated from the drug trade they seem mostly military/police?

Amazed at how many are just 'missing'  how does a 980 just disappear.

donv

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #205 on: August 12, 2022, 07:32:35 pm »
Bruce sold a bunch of them down there, he would have a better idea. However, even though a lot of them were confiscated drug airplanes, I would guess more of them were sold new (or fairly new) down there to legitimate owners. Turbo Commanders are just great airplanes for down there, and there is a big service center in Venezuela, so that's not an issue (are they still going?)-- just a great fit.

JMA

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #206 on: August 19, 2022, 10:51:44 am »
Interesting, didn't know that many sold new.  Thanks for always taking the time Don.

Flew to Bermuda, he's the view from the cockpit at 30,000.


donv

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #207 on: August 19, 2022, 10:55:40 am »
Ouch! Well, seen that before.

schrambow

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #208 on: August 19, 2022, 10:58:40 am »
Wow!
just wondering your take on this of the cause?  Cold temp?
Did you decent to lower altitudes when this happened?  Did (does) one slow the machine up a bit to baby it back to airport?  Just wondering the correct response to an issue like this?   And i hope you get it fix quickly!


SKYFLYER

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Re: 980 Questions
« Reply #209 on: August 19, 2022, 12:00:48 pm »
Most of the time it is reach for the check book and write one for 50K  Total bummer